.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[SquatchHunter]

In order to be only 250 yards behind the performance of black hills 77 tmk load, you're gonna have to push that bullet at around 2450 fps out of your hornet. Got some secret load data to share? Maybe an Ackley improved, +p hornet with a 36 inch barrel?

I think he’s forgetting heavier bullets (in this case nearly double the normal grain weight) move slower.

 

[Big_wals]

I think he’s forgetting heavier bullets (in this case nearly double the normal grain weight) move slower.

Lol. To be fair, I know nothing about the 22 hornet. But I did check Hornadys reloading manual, and the max load with a 55 grainer is only 2400, so there's that. And as you said, heavier bullets tend to go slower...

 

[atmat]

Y’all, he’s a troll. Pay him no mind.

 

[TaperPin]

Lol. To be fair, I know nothing about the 22 hornet. But I did check Hornadys reloading manual, and the max load with a 55 grainer is only 2400, so there's that. And as you said, heavier bullets tend to go slower...

Since there is no 77 gr published data for the hornet I guess it will take some time to find out.
Apples to apples the 223 and 55gr bullets is roughly 3100 fps at muzzle? At 200 yards that’s roughly 2400 fps?

Bullshit
No one is that dumb
You would not be able to get a 77 TMK into its optimum velocity window with a Hornet no matter what barrel you used

Well, if I’m wrong and the Hornet is 300 yards behind the 223 with 77gr bullets I’ll be the first to admit it. I guess that makes it a 150 yard elk killer. So far I haven’t seen any chronograph numbers for the heavy bullets in a Hornet, but that’s just a matter of time since fast twist barrels are being installed in these little guys.

 

[ElPollo]

Somewhere there is a bridge without a troll living under it.

 

[rbutcher1234]

LOL. What a troll. Why would you want to go lighter than a 223? Is the 223 somehow too ridiculous to handle?

 

[TaperPin]

LOL. What a troll. Why would you want to go lighter than a 223? Is the 223 somehow too ridiculous to handle?

I didn’t mean to upset you, and didn’t realize the type of cartridge a bullet is fired from was such an emotional issue. I hope you are able to move past the Hornet.

 

[Big_wals]

Since there is no 77 gr published data for the hornet I guess it will take some time to find out.
Apples to apples the 223 and 55gr bullets is roughly 3100 fps at muzzle? At 200 yards that’s roughly 2400 fps?

What? Who cares what a 55gr out of a 223 is doing at 200 yards? That has nothing to do with this.

Hornadys manual show the max load with 35gr at 3100 fps and the 55gr at 2400. Thats a 700 fps loss for 20 grains of added bullet weight. Add another 22 grains to go with the 77, lose another 700 fps...... lets see, thats 1700 fps. Minimum recommended impact velocity is around 1800 I believe..... if my math is correct, should be about a negative 73.5 yard elk killer.

Edited: I know velocity loss isn't linear with added bullet weight. But this is all theoretical anyways.

 

[Big_wals]

Sorry for cluttering up the thread everyone. I'll stop the pointless arguing. If anyone wants to build a fast twist 22 hornet and load 77 tmks into it, please do. Im sure everyone here would love to see the results.

 

[Old Dog]

I didn’t mean to upset you, and didn’t realize the type of cartridge a bullet is fired from was such an emotional issue. I hope you are able to move past the Hornet.

Well, you come off either as trolling or as not knowing anything about the 22 Hornet or the 77 gr TMK.


So where exactly are you going to put all that bullet?

 

[Reburn]

I don’t think he is slow or ignorant, but I could be wrong.

He is just looking for an engagement.
Engaging him is feeding a gremlin after midnight.

 

[woods89]

This being the 223 thread, perhaps any experimenting with fast twist 22 hornets should be in a 22 Hornet thread?

 

[TaperPin]

Well, you come off either as trolling or as not knowing anything about the 22 Hornet or the 77 gr TMK.
View attachment 600790

So where exactly are you going to put all that bullet?

If it were me I’d have the chamber cut so the bullet sits way out and use it as a single shot. It’s possible to get a pre64 Winchester model 70 in 22 Hornet, or duplicate that kind of feeding setup for a repeater, but that’s a lot of work. Probably easiest route for a repeater with extra long magazine is something else, but I’m no expert on any of it.

A quick google search shows all sorts of full size rifles converted to single shots, at least one bench rest/varmint action from BAT with a hornet bolt face, and at least 6 modern single shots were chambered in the Hornet.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

The 22 hornet in a modern action is only 200 yards behind the 223 - maybe 250. I only bring it up to help out the guys that don’t shoot far and want to maybe have a more appropriate rifle built.

It’s retarded but if it makes you happy go for it. Nobody else cares because there’s literally no reason to not just do a 223.

 

[fwafwow]

+1 to my ignore list.

 

[280Ackley]

Any one familiar with the following? You can pick them up for $399 after $100 rebate.

CZ-USA 600 AL1 Alpha 223 Rem 24" 4rd Bolt Rifle w/ Threaded Barrel - Black​

 

[Hagas4all]

Not hydraulic, the temporary stretch cavity. And yes, animals just like humans have varying levels of psychological incapacitation




Nope. Given ideal projectiles for any cartridge within that realm, bigger is “more” but not generally more enough to mean anything*. That is- just because you shoot an animal in the lungs and it runs 50 yards does not mean that if you went bigger that it would have ran 25 yards instead. Barring a CNS hit, they have to run out of oxygen or blood, and given correct bullets and impact speed everything in the 223-308 realm is more alike than different.

*heavy frangible 6.5, 7mm and 308 bullets can cause significantly more tissue damage than say a .224 with like bullet, however those bullets way cross over the line that almost anyone would find acceptable for meat damage. With a 223 and the right bullet it’s already at too much tissue damage levels- why would I go bigger unless I wanted to cause even more meat loss? Because going bigger and then hamstringing the cartridge by putting a bullet in it that causes less damage is akin to buying a V8 and then yanking spark plugs because it’s too fast.




Yes indeed. Glass is horrific on bullets. It’s also what one can expect as a worse case scenario- say extremely large ungulates (moose/bison) shoulder knuckles or shoulder joint. Plywood is similar to elk/big deer shoulders. Heavy denim equates to vary large and fat hide and skin.

Out of a 30-06 with a 180 grain projectile what would be your bullet choice for Bison? We have a special draw this year and I have my fingers crossed… The combo mentioned is the minimum allowed by regulations for Bison.

 

[rabbithuntr]

Any one familiar with the following? You can pick them up for $399 after $100 rebate.

CZ-USA 600 AL1 Alpha 223 Rem 24" 4rd Bolt Rifle w/ Threaded Barrel - Black​

I don’t know much but I guided a couple guys who had alphas but in 6.5 they liked them the only thing bad they had to say was about the recall so you couldn’t change barrels.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Formidilosus]

Out of a 30-06 with a 180 grain projectile what would be your bullet choice for Bison? We have a special draw this year and I have my fingers crossed… The combo mentioned is the minimum allowed by regulations for Bison.

Bison is one of the cases where less tissue damage can be ok, because they tend not move much when shot.

For a 30/06 it would probably a 180gr Nosler Partition, Federal’s 200gr Terminal Ascent or 180gr Trophy Bonded Tip.

 

[Sandstrom]

Bison is one of the cases where less tissue damage can be ok, because they tend not move much when shot.

For a 30/06 it would probably a 180gr Nosler Partition, Federal’s 200gr Terminal Ascent or 180gr Trophy Bonded Tip.

Serious question, Is there any reason you wouldn’t use a 77 TMK on a bison if allowed? Reason I ask is we saw one while antelope hunting with the TMK.

Also another question, what are your thoughts for the TMK on fall turkey where a rifle is allowed?

Ryan