.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Boonie327]

You should, it’s the most informative material I’ve read on the internet period. If you can’t let go of traditional stigmas, it probably won’t matter, but if you are capable of reading with an open mind, your opinions will shift at least some.

The vast information (experience based) in this thread can be applied to any cartridge as well, it’s about the .223 but goes much deeper than that alone.

I opened this thread because I’m a sucker for clickbait thread titles, but it got real legs pretty quick.

I completely agree after reading this thread. It’s eye opening and even if you don’t jump on the .223 train (or 77 tmk), it has make people think a little bit you’d hope. Or maybe it can at least open your mind to the information presented in the 6mm or quarter bore threads that show they kill everything dead too, but I’m pretty sure that no one is convincing the naysayers and energy guys of anything different.

 

[Trackselk]

Was reading an article from some law enforcement expert about the wound cavity of .223 fmj's in humans, which I would assume would be about the same as a big game animal. Anyhow, he said that the wound cavity (think trashed, bleeding lungs, heart, liver) was 11-12 times the bullet diameter. That makes 2.5". So, my point in mentioning this, is that unless you are also anti archery x2+, that an fmj .223 through the vitals is way more deadly than any arrow. I think this explains the success on moose in Alaska with the fmj .223's. Now, the tmk is vastly more lethal than that, or even monos...
Lastly, I hunt archery also, so I'm not bashing on arrows. It's just basic physics that a bullet at rifle speeds destroys tissue dramatically.
Dumpster fire started I hope

 

[Bob2650]

The FMJ requires a LOT more velocity to make that wound channel.

 

[Trackselk]

The FMJ requires a LOT more velocity to make that wound channel.

They were referring to typical 223 rifle velocities on people, usual combat ranges I guess.

 

[Bob2650]

Perhaps I am guilty of assumption, sorry.
The 77 TMK works at 2,000fps or even less but an Alaskan moose at 50 paces with an FMJ in the heart is not going far.
I am for the 20" barrel for 5.56 FMJ in combat to produce the minimum magic velocity of 2,500fps to 2.700fps at a useful distance to greatly increase the wounding potential. Given enough speed, the FMJ woks just fine.

 

[BigNate]

maybe I’ll stay with the ELD M for now then. I just got my mini setup so time to see what it likes!

The 73gr ELD can be loaded to spec COAL.

 

[dreamingWest]

Anyone know the best powder for a clone of Black Hills 5.56 77 tmk? I think I'll finally start loading for my Tikka. I know form posted a no-nonsense place to start a while back, but I'm not having luck finding it. My favorite powder is H4350, but I've got access to some faster burn rates, CFE223, Varget, etc,

 

[BjornF16]

Anyone know the best powder for a clone of Black Hills 5.56 77 tmk? I think I'll finally start loading for my Tikka. I know form posted a no-nonsense place to start a while back, but I'm not having luck finding it. My favorite powder is H4350, but I've got access to some faster burn rates, CFE223, Varget, etc,

.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

Thanks Form, that’s just what I was looking for. I remembered it being mentioned in earlier post but got lost in the 50 pages. I think I’ll go 18-20, might just split difference and do 19”.

rokslide.com

 

[wind gypsy]

Anyone know the best powder for a clone of Black Hills 5.56 77 tmk? I think I'll finally start loading for my Tikka. I know form posted a no-nonsense place to start a while back, but I'm not having luck finding it. My favorite powder is H4350, but I've got access to some faster burn rates, CFE223, Varget, etc,

xbr, H4895, tac. Varget works well but can get really compressed if you're not seating out long.

 

[BryanL]

Anyone know the best powder for a clone of Black Hills 5.56 77 tmk? I think I'll finally start loading for my Tikka. I know form posted a no-nonsense place to start a while back, but I'm not having luck finding it. My favorite powder is H4350, but I've got access to some faster burn rates, CFE223, Varget, etc,

23.4-23.7gr of IMR8208 or 24.5gr of TAC is what most suggest from previous posts and a few other load threads. CFE223 can get stuff going fast but isn’t necessarily as temp stable if that matters to you.

 

[Tahr]

I did a thread search but no bueno!
Is the 52 grain ELD Match viable for deer inside say 150 yards? Looking to minimize recoil as much as possible for a 10 year old. He’s so thin he can get out of the rain by standing under a clothes line.

This is going back a bit in the thread but I'm just wading my way though the posts. I shot 79 Red deer and Fallow last year and the majority with the .223. Mainly 77 TMK but a few with the 52grain ELDM. Here is a pic of a low shoulder shot on a Fallow (sort of the size of whitetail doe). 52 grn ELDM. 3300 fps, 180 yards.
It didn't exactly knock it off its feet but it didn't run either. Did a small circle and expired. Internal damage was mushy.


Have neck shot a few with the 52 ELDM and they poll axed

Here is a 77 TMK that I recently retrieved from under the off side shoulder of a very big Red hind. 2900 fps, 188 yards. She just took a few steps.This was a centre shoulder hit.





I have plenty of other pics of .223 terminal effects on deer. Not exclusively 77TMK.

 

[Tahr]

Whoops. Is there an edit function?? I have doubled up the pics.

 

[ResearchinStuff]

Normally you can edit posts, but maybe not until your post count gets high enough?

 

[Justin Crossley]

Whoops. Is there an edit function?? I have doubled up the pics.

I fixed it for ya

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Watched a buddy use these on two antelope does last year. Both shots around 200 yards out of a 22” barrel, so should have had plenty of velocity. Both were solid shots tight behind front leg, and both took a long time to die and required a finishing headshot after we walked up on them in the sage. Should have done a necropsy to see exactly what damage was done, but pretty disappointed in the XP. I think we will both be finding something else to use in our .223s this year.

That’s not surprising, I shot a groundhog with the 125gr 6.5 Creedmoor load and it was very very explosive. Like it took a grenade. Way more explosive than a bullet designed for big game or controlled expansion.

 

[MEdude]

@Tahr
Thanks for the photo, and first hand observation / experience.
Were did you have opportunity to hunt / cull fallow deer? (Oh I see, New Zealand)

 

[Tahr]

@Tahr
Thanks for the photo, and first hand observation / experience.
Were did you have opportunity to hunt / cull fallow deer? (Oh I see, New Zealand)

You are welcome. Here's 2 from last evening. 150 and 200 odd yards. The projectile was an 80 grain "Targex". These are made here in NZ as a hunting bullet using Berger jackets and perform very well. Maybe not the penetration of the 77 TMK but stunning terminal performance. Pic is of the shoulder peeled back and showing entry through ribs. Projectile didn't pass through but shredded the lungs. Ive shot deer out to 400 yards using this bullet.

 

[Trackselk]

Quick question I figured would get a good response in this thread.
As a fledgling hunter turned marksman (thanks to this thread); is my tiny 4.5lb .223 (wylde) TC contender a suitable trainer for my 5lb kimber rifles (22 creed, 6.5 creed)? Please see pic for the diminutive dimensions. (1" shortened LOP, 16" barrel).
Or experienced hunter turned fledgling marksman that is...

 

[robtattoo]

Quick question I figured would get a good response in this thread.
As a fledgling hunter turned marksman (thanks to this thread); is my tiny 4.5lb .223 (wylde) TC contender a suitable trainer for my 5lb kimber rifles (22 creed, 6.5 creed)? Please see pic for the diminutive dimensions. (1" shortened LOP, 16" barrel).
Or experienced hunter turned fledgling marksman that is...

Yer recoil pad's on wrong.

That's a lovely little rifle though!

 

[Trackselk]

Yer recoil pad's on wrong.

That's a lovely little rifle though!

Thanks, that picture actually has the 30-30 barrel, so when it's complete with the fluted 223 barrel and talleys it should be at or under 4.5lb, which is pretty dang handy in my pack. It killed a few elk from close ranges about a decade ago...then I went .308, then 6.5, now probably just use the .22 creed for everything thanks to this thread.