.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Pharmseller]

@Formidilosus, I hear constantly about the "saving meat" argument. What I never hear about is the effect of stress on meat quality. This is well documented in the agricultural meat processing world. An animal that experiences high levels of stress before death ( being shot and running for even a few dozen yards) will yield ALL of the meat being of poorer quality. It has to do with pH, enzymes, glycogen , and calpains. Tons of open source data on this if someone cares to look. Point is there is definitely an argument to be made for sacrificing say 20% more meat to a bullet that kills rapidly vs compromising 100% of the meat to a bullet that has a smaller permanent wound cavity ( less bloodshot) but resulted in the animal running full out, adrenaline fueled, max stress, bleeding out over 100 yards.

I disagree with your thesis. Absent a CNS hit, just about every animal is going to run until the brain runs out of oxygen. Usually more than a few dozen yards. In my experience poor care in the field makes the difference in meat quality.




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[xsn10s]

I disagree with your thesis. Absent a CNS hit, just about every animal is going to run until the brain runs out of oxygen. Usually more than a few dozen yards. In my experience poor care in the field makes the difference in meat quality.




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Yup I agree. And it seems like some animals have a much stronger will to live than others. I shot a meat sow at 70 yards with a 30-06 180 Magtip. Perfect broadside and destroyed the hear and lungs. Huge blood cloud witnessed by my guide and the pig still ran for over a hundred yards. After we processed the pig the guide said he'd never believe it unless he saw it. When I saw the sow take off I racked another round in to shoot it again but the guide stopped me "she's dead she just doesn't know it". When the sow almost crested the hill my guide said get ready to stop her lol.

 

[BigStick]

I've seen FAR more issues with large case capacity chamberings,than I have modest or lesser versions of same.

I've faith in a good 6x.............

 

[Kimber7man]

I've seen FAR more issues with large case capacity chamberings,than I have modest or lesser versions of same.

I've faith in a good 6x.............

Wait. How could you be a FNG??

Hint

 

[Tahr]

I'm betting 6X is more than enough to hit an 8" kill zone inside of 300 yards, so precision is not an issue. And unlike the Tract, the SWFA won't move 3 MOA after a simple drop test. The "grail" here is based on a $200 scope that outperforms scopes that literally cost 10-20 times more. And the 6X is used because at most realistic hunting distances even 6X is overkill.

Thread 'Tract Toric Ultra HD 3-15x50mm Field Eval' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/tract-toric-ultra-hd-3-15x50mm-field-eval.287271/

I cull up to 70 deer a year, mainly with a .223 out to 400 yards. My experience is that for humane killing my rifles ought to hold one MOA out to 400 yards. Personally I need more than 6 pwr to do that. In regards to 'scopes its subjective but practical experience trumps internet chatter every day. I have 2 Tract's which have been utterly reliable and been put to extreme use - they are mainly used on the top end power range. I also use a 4-15 SWFA (I think thats the pwr range) and that is also a good reliable 'scope but of lesser glass quality. (which is of no great consequence)

I do agree with you that on a limited budget the 6x fixed SWAFA sounds a reliable option. But not for me.

 

[BigStick]

Budget plays ZERO role in 6x MQ mechanical aptitude. What matters most bout a bullet steering optic,are the things you can not see and that's internal mechanics. FEW things can begin to compete with it's superb rmechanics/weight ratio.

1 MOA is a breeze to hold with same at 400yds and that isn't a function of "magnification",but rather an exceptional etched reticle.

I of course have more than a few SWFA 3-15's in multiple flavors and FFP MQ is without peer,there too. I muchly prefer 6x MQ simplicity and rear parallax control.................

 

[Mike Islander]

I cull up to 70 deer a year, mainly with a .223 out to 400 yards. My experience is that for humane killing my rifles ought to hold one MOA out to 400 yards. Personally I need more than 6 pwr to do that. In regards to 'scopes its subjective but practical experience trumps internet chatter every day. I have 2 Tract's which have been utterly reliable and been put to extreme use - they are mainly used on the top end power range. I also use a 4-15 SWFA (I think thats the pwr range) and that is also a good reliable 'scope but of lesser glass quality. (which is of no great consequence)

I do agree with you that on a limited budget the 6x fixed SWAFA sounds a reliable option. But not for me.

Maybe it's my 61 years young eyes, but at the 250+ yards that we were originally discussing, and to which I posted my reply, I have absolutely no problem holding well within MOA on center target with 6X. Seeing POA is a non-issue. But even at 400 yards, any proficient hunter should be able to put the reticle on the spot you want to shoot within one MOA using a 6X...unless you don't have good eyes. Then there might be a reason to NEED more.

But like you said, in the field is what matters. And it matters on an individual basis. So whatever works. The grail of the 6X is that it works for most hunters far more reliably than many 10x more expensive scopes, and 6X works far, far better than many hunters ever thought it could for reasonable hunting ranges.

 

[Marshfly]

Sighted in the new setup today. Factory Tikka with a 6x SWFA. All factory ammo.

Groups were 6-10 shots. No use adding shots if it isn't acceptable.
I pulled the "flier" with the ELDM. You can count it or not. The rifle obviously likes it.
Once zero'd took 3 shots at 400 yards to fine tune dope and windage.
Then a single shot at 550 on an 8" wide plate to verify.
On the money. Time to go kill something.

Anyone that has doubts with a SWFA 6x at distance simply hasn't used one.

 

[Marshfly]

Also regarding hit rate. I have a friend that is a brand new shooter. Like a couple months new. He's been shooting a Tikka 6.5CM/ Credo combo about once a week. Good practice from field positions.

He took the second shot from the 223 today at 550. His first time behind the rifle. Hit the plate with zero issues. I was a little shocked to be honest. Loving this rifle.

 

[Pharmseller]

I went shooting with my brother today. Among the rifles was his Superlite .223. First time trying my 75 ELDM load I named Carlos. Three shots in the same hole at 100 yards. Not bad.




P

 

[wesr228]

I’ve been in the road the last few days, so not sure if it’s been widely reported, but BH 77 TMK is available at multiple outlets right now.

$70 at Bone Frog Gun Club and $80 at Eagle Eye and Lucky Gunner.

Was really stoked to see this pop up randomly in an email.

 

[Tahr]

Maybe it's my 61 years young eyes, but at the 250+ yards that we were originally discussing, and to which I posted my reply, I have absolutely no problem holding well within MOA on center target with 6X. Seeing POA is a non-issue. But even at 400 yards, any proficient hunter should be able to put the reticle on the spot you want to shoot within one MOA using a 6X...unless you don't have good eyes. Then there might be a reason to NEED more.

But like you said, in the field is what matters. And it matters on an individual basis. So whatever works. The grail of the 6X is that it works for most hunters far more reliably than many 10x more expensive scopes, and 6X works far, far better than many hunters ever thought it could for reasonable hunting ranges.

My eyes have a combined age of 150 years. Maybe thats why I prefer a higher end magnification.

 

[mtnwrunner]

I went shooting with my brother today. Among the rifles was his Superlite .223. First time trying my 75 ELDM load I named Carlos. Three shots in the same hole at 100 yards. Not bad.




P

7 more to go.

Randy

 

[Marshfly]

7 more to go.

Randy

Yup. My ELDM group started out as that three shot cloverleaf in the center today.

 

[Luke S]

Okay so this is a bit off topic but somewhat related. I'm heavily invested in a 308 rifle (ammo, reloading components etc) and it shots very well. Based on what we know from the 223 what would be the best way to maximize the 308s performance if I decided to run with it for everything including incidental grizzly hunting? I like 150 SST Superperfmance ammo because it's still going 2700 fps in a short barrel and it's accurate. I saw one round of that punch to the opposite side of a moose rib cage. The other load I've used is a 200 gr Nosler Partition going about 2415 fps. It has blown through every black bear it encountered including a 6 footers that was probably 300 to 350 pounds.
I'm guessing the recommendation will be to use the lighter and faster rounds and maybe the 200 gr if I follow a bear into the bushes.

Oh and if Rokslide wants to sponsor a grizzly hunt I'll go! I'll either pull the trigger or backup a (resident) hunter with an old fashioned rifle of larger caliber.

 

[BigStick]

You are having a VERY good day,if you can keep a 155 Scenar in a Bear,much larger than cited.

I'm not a 308 Guy,because I've suffered many of them,but that's the only way I'd fly,as a Utility Killing Machine..............

 

[roosiebull]

Round 2 on getting a tikka going… had to run my daughter and friend to town so stopped at the gun shop… have one ordered and background filled out, and the shop owner said he’ll have a serial number Monday and submit the background check and rifle should arrive mid week… well sonuvabitch, why did I even consider going through sportsman’s the first time? (They had one sitting on the rack I guess)

This shop has always been beyond excellent and really go out of their way, and do everything they can to get you in possession of your gun asap, and I’ll keep my firearms shopping there and there only.

Only problem is it’s always crazy in there, but that’s to be expected when you have that service with their prices on top of it. Going to order some UM rings and a vertical grip tonight and just shoot the factory stock until the rokstock is available

Got lots of ammo, taking my 2.5-10nxs off my 308 and putting it on the 223 and have a 3-15x swfa that’s going on the 308. Can’t hardly wait for a new toy

Have a couple hundred tmk’s and now will grab some more, and will grab 1k primers tomorrow when I go to give them money (didn’t bring cash today not planning on them being able to order one today, and didn’t really plan on the gun shop until I was in town)

 

[Pharmseller]

7 more to go.

Randy

This is eleventeen shots.

Count ‘em.





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[amassi]

Okay so this is a bit off topic but somewhat related. I'm heavily invested in a 308 rifle (ammo, reloading components etc) and it shots very well. Based on what we know from the 223 what would be the best way to maximize the 308s performance if I decided to run with it for everything including incidental grizzly hunting? I like 150 SST Superperfmance ammo because it's still going 2700 fps in a short barrel and it's accurate. I saw one round of that punch to the opposite side of a moose rib cage. The other load I've used is a 200 gr Nosler Partition going about 2415 fps. It has blown through every black bear it encountered including a 6 footers that was probably 300 to 350 pounds.
I'm guessing the recommendation will be to use the lighter and faster rounds and maybe the 200 gr if I follow a bear into the bushes.

Oh and if Rokslide wants to sponsor a grizzly hunt I'll go! I'll either pull the trigger or backup a (resident) hunter with an old fashioned rifle of larger caliber.

168 a max


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[BigStick]

For starters,the 168 'Max has a BC,which is softer than the 155 Scenar.

The Lapua is more ruggedly reliable and along with same,I'll happily trade 13grs of mass,for more velocity and less recoil,along with improved flight characteistics and Terminal Effects...........