.223 for bear, mountain goat, deer, elk, and moose.

[Jake Leibke]

I should also add that these deer were shot with the American Bullet Company 77 tipped bullets. Which it’s been talked about earlier that they are the same as the TMK but. But not sure if anyone had killed anything with them yet.


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[Sadler]

I should also add that these deer were shot with the American Bullet Company 77 tipped bullets. Which it’s been talked about earlier that they are the same as the TMK but. But not sure if anyone had killed anything with them yet.


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Good to know. I’ll be reloading those pretty soon.

 

[Tahr]

77TMK 230 yards. Didn't exit, this is the entry. Any good hunting bullet would have worked.
The advantage that the 77TMK brings for these shots is a good BC to minimise wind upset and scary accurate.
On the matter of the grail SWFA 6x, which I don't understand - it would be quite a compromise for me in precision compared to my 3-15 (happens to be a Tract) or any good similar 'scope.

 

[BAC]

77TMK 230 yards. Didn't exit, this is the entry. Any good hunting bullet would have worked.
The advantage that the 77TMK brings for these shots is a good BC to minimise wind upset and scary accurate.
On the matter of the grail SWFA 6x, which I don't understand - it would be quite a compromise for me in precision compared to my 3-15 (happens to be a Tract) or any good similar 'scope.

Nice shooting. I'm reminded that I need to also be studying the different good strike zones and make sure I'm proficient at those at different angles and ranges before I go out for my first hunt.

Regarding optics... in keeping with my realization that this new upper (intended for work) might also be great for hunting, if setting up for work then I have some optics restrictions to consider that preclude the RSS meta. If not a red dot, it must be a true lpvo (no fixed- or medium-power variables) and from a very small list of manufacturers. It's looking like a Credo 1-6 SFP is going to be my best bet with that limitation. Seems to have a well-behaved 6x so functionally shouldn't be too different from the recommended fixed 6x anyway. Time to see if it's gone through the Rokslide ringer.

 

[Spoonbill]

Nice shooting. I'm reminded that I need to also be studying the different good strike zones and make sure I'm proficient at those at different angles and ranges before I go out for my first hunt.

Regarding optics... in keeping with my realization that this new upper (intended for work) might also be great for hunting, if setting up for work then I have some optics restrictions to consider that preclude the RSS meta. If not a red dot, it must be a true lpvo (no fixed- or medium-power variables) and from a very small list of manufacturers. It's looking like a Credo 1-6 SFP is going to be my best bet with that limitation. Seems to have a well-behaved 6x so functionally shouldn't be too different from the recommended fixed 6x anyway. Time to see if it's gone through the Rokslide ringer.

If you can use a 1-8, both nightforce and trijicon make ones that can dial. The 1-6 accupoint has illumination and doesn’t need batteries if that makes a difference to you.

 

[Mike Islander]

On the matter of the grail SWFA 6x, which I don't understand - it would be quite a compromise for me in precision compared to my 3-15 (happens to be a Tract) or any good similar 'scope.

I'm betting 6X is more than enough to hit an 8" kill zone inside of 300 yards, so precision is not an issue. And unlike the Tract, the SWFA won't move 3 MOA after a simple drop test. The "grail" here is based on a $200 scope that outperforms scopes that literally cost 10-20 times more. And the 6X is used because at most realistic hunting distances even 6X is overkill.

Thread 'Tract Toric Ultra HD 3-15x50mm Field Eval' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/tract-toric-ultra-hd-3-15x50mm-field-eval.287271/

 

[BAC]

There's a youtuber I've watched for a long time (C_does, if anyone cares) that primarily reviews scopes and had a great discussion with a couple other guntubers on the over-reliance of big zoom over practice and learning dope / reticles properly. He contended that for most shooters in most situations, 6x is on the upper end of what they would need even for hunting and most would be well served by a better-made / more durable 4x or 6x than fancier 8x and higher power fixed or variables. I know he hunts but I don't know how much or how far; he's a NYer and lives up in the NE but I don't know what kind of ranges he has encountered while hunting or doing precision rifle matches but it sounds like 400-600 are well within his usual practice ranges.

I can't comment on how much magnification is "needed" (I'm a pistol guy with minimal rifle experience only now getting into rifles seriously for work and hunting purposes), but based on some of the more loved optics here and elsewhere, I think he makes a damn fine point about how good some of the lower powered scopes are in real world use compared to higher powered or newer versions. It seems like these comparatively lower powered scopes are often more durable, have better clarity, are a little lighter, etc. than newer more complex scopes.

For me, the 1-6 is a good way to satisfy work's policy requirements, with a vetted (maybe not here?) scope, from a good manufacturer, that has a good usable 6x I can quickly switch to. Having a substantial discount via ExpertVoice is also a big factor.

 

[deerhunter628]

From a buddy.

Bull elk, 2,600’ish fps impact.

First hit through hip-
View attachment 623261

Follow up through ribs, heart and into opposite scapula.
View attachment 623263

View attachment 623264

No way. We all know anything less than 300 win mag bounces off elk. Nice try.

 

[Pharmseller]

@Formidilosus, I hear constantly about the "saving meat" argument. What I never hear about is the effect of stress on meat quality. This is well documented in the agricultural meat processing world. An animal that experiences high levels of stress before death ( being shot and running for even a few dozen yards) will yield ALL of the meat being of poorer quality. It has to do with pH, enzymes, glycogen , and calpains. Tons of open source data on this if someone cares to look. Point is there is definitely an argument to be made for sacrificing say 20% more meat to a bullet that kills rapidly vs compromising 100% of the meat to a bullet that has a smaller permanent wound cavity ( less bloodshot) but resulted in the animal running full out, adrenaline fueled, max stress, bleeding out over 100 yards.

I disagree with your thesis. Absent a CNS hit, just about every animal is going to run until the brain runs out of oxygen. Usually more than a few dozen yards. In my experience poor care in the field makes the difference in meat quality.




P

 

[xsn10s]

I disagree with your thesis. Absent a CNS hit, just about every animal is going to run until the brain runs out of oxygen. Usually more than a few dozen yards. In my experience poor care in the field makes the difference in meat quality.




P

Yup I agree. And it seems like some animals have a much stronger will to live than others. I shot a meat sow at 70 yards with a 30-06 180 Magtip. Perfect broadside and destroyed the hear and lungs. Huge blood cloud witnessed by my guide and the pig still ran for over a hundred yards. After we processed the pig the guide said he'd never believe it unless he saw it. When I saw the sow take off I racked another round in to shoot it again but the guide stopped me "she's dead she just doesn't know it". When the sow almost crested the hill my guide said get ready to stop her lol.

 

[BigStick]

I've seen FAR more issues with large case capacity chamberings,than I have modest or lesser versions of same.

I've faith in a good 6x.............

 

[Kimber7man]

I've seen FAR more issues with large case capacity chamberings,than I have modest or lesser versions of same.

I've faith in a good 6x.............

Wait. How could you be a FNG??

Hint

 

[Tahr]

I'm betting 6X is more than enough to hit an 8" kill zone inside of 300 yards, so precision is not an issue. And unlike the Tract, the SWFA won't move 3 MOA after a simple drop test. The "grail" here is based on a $200 scope that outperforms scopes that literally cost 10-20 times more. And the 6X is used because at most realistic hunting distances even 6X is overkill.

Thread 'Tract Toric Ultra HD 3-15x50mm Field Eval' https://rokslide.com/forums/threads/tract-toric-ultra-hd-3-15x50mm-field-eval.287271/

I cull up to 70 deer a year, mainly with a .223 out to 400 yards. My experience is that for humane killing my rifles ought to hold one MOA out to 400 yards. Personally I need more than 6 pwr to do that. In regards to 'scopes its subjective but practical experience trumps internet chatter every day. I have 2 Tract's which have been utterly reliable and been put to extreme use - they are mainly used on the top end power range. I also use a 4-15 SWFA (I think thats the pwr range) and that is also a good reliable 'scope but of lesser glass quality. (which is of no great consequence)

I do agree with you that on a limited budget the 6x fixed SWAFA sounds a reliable option. But not for me.

 

[BigStick]

Budget plays ZERO role in 6x MQ mechanical aptitude. What matters most bout a bullet steering optic,are the things you can not see and that's internal mechanics. FEW things can begin to compete with it's superb rmechanics/weight ratio.

1 MOA is a breeze to hold with same at 400yds and that isn't a function of "magnification",but rather an exceptional etched reticle.

I of course have more than a few SWFA 3-15's in multiple flavors and FFP MQ is without peer,there too. I muchly prefer 6x MQ simplicity and rear parallax control.................

 

[Mike Islander]

I cull up to 70 deer a year, mainly with a .223 out to 400 yards. My experience is that for humane killing my rifles ought to hold one MOA out to 400 yards. Personally I need more than 6 pwr to do that. In regards to 'scopes its subjective but practical experience trumps internet chatter every day. I have 2 Tract's which have been utterly reliable and been put to extreme use - they are mainly used on the top end power range. I also use a 4-15 SWFA (I think thats the pwr range) and that is also a good reliable 'scope but of lesser glass quality. (which is of no great consequence)

I do agree with you that on a limited budget the 6x fixed SWAFA sounds a reliable option. But not for me.

Maybe it's my 61 years young eyes, but at the 250+ yards that we were originally discussing, and to which I posted my reply, I have absolutely no problem holding well within MOA on center target with 6X. Seeing POA is a non-issue. But even at 400 yards, any proficient hunter should be able to put the reticle on the spot you want to shoot within one MOA using a 6X...unless you don't have good eyes. Then there might be a reason to NEED more.

But like you said, in the field is what matters. And it matters on an individual basis. So whatever works. The grail of the 6X is that it works for most hunters far more reliably than many 10x more expensive scopes, and 6X works far, far better than many hunters ever thought it could for reasonable hunting ranges.

 

[Marshfly]

Sighted in the new setup today. Factory Tikka with a 6x SWFA. All factory ammo.

Groups were 6-10 shots. No use adding shots if it isn't acceptable.
I pulled the "flier" with the ELDM. You can count it or not. The rifle obviously likes it.
Once zero'd took 3 shots at 400 yards to fine tune dope and windage.
Then a single shot at 550 on an 8" wide plate to verify.
On the money. Time to go kill something.

Anyone that has doubts with a SWFA 6x at distance simply hasn't used one.

 

[Marshfly]

Also regarding hit rate. I have a friend that is a brand new shooter. Like a couple months new. He's been shooting a Tikka 6.5CM/ Credo combo about once a week. Good practice from field positions.

He took the second shot from the 223 today at 550. His first time behind the rifle. Hit the plate with zero issues. I was a little shocked to be honest. Loving this rifle.

 

[Pharmseller]

I went shooting with my brother today. Among the rifles was his Superlite .223. First time trying my 75 ELDM load I named Carlos. Three shots in the same hole at 100 yards. Not bad.




P

 

[wesr228]

I’ve been in the road the last few days, so not sure if it’s been widely reported, but BH 77 TMK is available at multiple outlets right now.

$70 at Bone Frog Gun Club and $80 at Eagle Eye and Lucky Gunner.

Was really stoked to see this pop up randomly in an email.

 

[Tahr]

Maybe it's my 61 years young eyes, but at the 250+ yards that we were originally discussing, and to which I posted my reply, I have absolutely no problem holding well within MOA on center target with 6X. Seeing POA is a non-issue. But even at 400 yards, any proficient hunter should be able to put the reticle on the spot you want to shoot within one MOA using a 6X...unless you don't have good eyes. Then there might be a reason to NEED more.

But like you said, in the field is what matters. And it matters on an individual basis. So whatever works. The grail of the 6X is that it works for most hunters far more reliably than many 10x more expensive scopes, and 6X works far, far better than many hunters ever thought it could for reasonable hunting ranges.

My eyes have a combined age of 150 years. Maybe thats why I prefer a higher end magnification.