.223 for bear, deer, elk and moose.

[redneckbmxer24]

What did you see to suggest they are not a substitute?

Personally I don’t take much merit in what a bullet does to small game, seems like as long a tipped bullet expands they make a mess.

My plan was to use the 88 for my out west deer gun this year.

My experience with 223 on big game is limited to culling deer in central VA but for me bullets that have consistently done well on deer have left decent exit wounds on groundhogs. They aren’t big game but they’re still flesh and you can still get a good idea of how the bullet is acting. Those 88’s either penciled through or they popped inside not exiting at all. If the ones that do react and fragment aren’t even making it out of an 6-8” wide varmint then they aren’t suitable for bigger game IMO.

 

[Jake Leibke]

I shot some groundhogs and coyotes with 224 Valkyrie 88gr ELDM factory ammo. No way would I use those things on a big game animal. Based on my experience with them and what I've seen people post pics of in this thread they absolutely are not a substitute for 77gr TMK's.

Not the 88’s but I had the opportunity to kill a few whitetail a last week. Did it with a 22 creed and 80 eldm. Shot were 460 and 500 yards. The 80’s performed as expected. 2 dead deer, 1 within 20 yards and the other 50 yards. Had a pass through on 1 deer and the other the bullet was caught under hide on exit side. I would imagine the 88’s would perform similar with probably more penetration.

EDIT : Impact velocity was about 2100 fps.


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[Lawnboi]

My experience with 223 on big game is limited to culling deer in central VA but for me bullets that have consistently done well on deer have left decent exit wounds on groundhogs. They aren’t big game but they’re still flesh and you can still get a good idea of how the bullet is acting. Those 88’s either penciled through or they popped inside not exiting at all. If the ones that do react and fragment aren’t even making it out of an 6-8” wide varmint then they aren’t suitable for bigger game IMO.

Did you shoot any deer with the 88?

I have shot quite a few with the 77 out of a 223, and sub 400ish I’ll just grab the 223. The 88 would be in a 22 creed, for nothing bigger than deer.

 

[redneckbmxer24]

Did you shoot any deer with the 88?

I have shot quite a few with the 77 out of a 223, and sub 400ish I’ll just grab the 223. The 88 would be in a 22 creed, for nothing bigger than deer.

I didn’t and I wouldn’t based on what I saw on the groundhogs I shot. There’s just better choices for bullets.

 

[Lawnboi]

Not the 88’s but I had the opportunity to kill a few whitetail a last week. Did it with a 22 creed and 80 eldm. Shot were 460 and 500 yards. The 80’s performed as expected. 2 dead deer, 1 within 20 yards and the other 50 yards. Had a pass through on 1 deer and the other the bullet was caught under hide on exit side. I would imagine the 88’s would perform similar with probably more penetration.

EDIT : Impact velocity was about 2100 fps.


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What made you choose the 80 over the 88?

 

[Jake Leibke]

What made you choose the 80 over the 88?

I have not gotten the chance to shoot anything but targets with the 88’s. I got this barrel for cheap so was just doing a bunch of testing and learning with it. I just happened to have a load worked up with the 80’s when I got the call for this hunt, it was a depredation hunt. I’ve got a load worked up with the 88’s now that is hammering pretty good as well now so that will likely be my go to. I wouldn’t hesitate to use the 80’s again though.


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[kkp005]

Ok since I have some Lapua 22-250 brass I’m thinking about buying a 22-250 8 twist T3X Lite in SS. Chopping the barrel, using my stash of 77 TMK’s.
Mainly for deer and maybe antelope.
Crazy?
What’s the consensus on barrel length and then powder charge?

I’ve got an 8twist tikka 22-250…
Cut it down to 18” and only shoot suppressed.
I’m getting right a 3000 fps with h4350 and 77gr TMKs

 

[Formidilosus]

I figure this would be a good place to post this rather then start a new thread.

I listened to this podcast with Seth Swerczik from Hornady. They talked about a lot, but what got my attention is he went out of his way to say that they don't recommend their ELDM for hunting in any situation. He didn't just say it once or casually, but he made it a talking point. He stated that some people have great results at long range, but at shorter ranges they will be very inafective.

I'm not questioning the effectiveness of the bullets as I've seen most of the pictures in this thread.

Is the effectiveness of ELDM or TMK limited to smaller bullets like 6.5 or .223?

I have a box of 168g eldm in 308 that I was thinking about hunting with. Just wanted to see what you guys think.

The reasons why manufacturers don’t recommend certain bullets for hunting that absolutely perform superbly has been discussed in this thread and they “why match bullets for hunting” thread.

The 168gr ELD-M’s are fantastically killing bullets.

 

[Formidilosus]

I didn’t and I wouldn’t based on what I saw on the groundhogs I shot. There’s just better choices for bullets.

The 88gr ELD-M at like impact velocities perform very similar to the 77gr TMK in game. Using groundhogs as a surrogate for large game does not work for a variety of reasons.

 

[Nomosendero]

The reasons why manufacturers don’t recommend certain bullets for hunting that absolutely perform superbly has been discussed in this thread and they “why match bullets for hunting” thread.

The 168gr ELD-M’s are fantastically killing bullets.

168 indeed!
I have harvested several Deer with the 178 A-Max, now the ELDM. I used the ELDM as it was more accurate in my rifle than the 168. The results were stellar. I tried the ELDX and the result was not as dramatic. I would go with the ELDM over the ELDX for sure, for me at least.

From Hornady's standpoint, they will sell more bullets if you use the ELDM for targets and the ELDX for hunting for just the mere fact that you will likely check the zero's going back and forth.
Most people don't have a scope with adjustments accurate enough just to click back and forth or the shooter will not completely trust it and will verify.
If it means just a few rounds per year per person that would be thousands and thousands of bullets in their total market.

 

[Veloci_Wrench]

FYI: Grabagun has 73 gr. ELD-M ammo in stock. I've only seen OOS at other online retailers.

 

[Phinehas25]

I just received my 77 grain "tipped practice bullets" from creedmoor sports.

3 Sierra 77tmk on the top, American bullet company bullets are the 3 on the bottom.

I cannot discern any difference whatsoever.

 

[Phinehas25]

ABC bullet on the left, Sierra on the right. I just used a file to section the front half. Sorry I don't have great pictures, but in person they appear to be identical.

 

[Lawnboi]

Well now we know where all the 77s are

Edit: looks like they are just Sierra seconds with a new label.

Can’t Find Bullets? Try American Bullet Company and Save Money « Daily Bulletin

We've been hearing that top-name bullets are in short supply right now, particularly in popular .224, 6mm and .308 calibers. Here's a new option for HPBT bullets that can serve for practice and local club matches. Creedmoor Sports now offers American Bullet Company bullets.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

 

[FZMT]

Well now we know where all the 77s are

Edit: looks like they are just Sierra seconds with a new label.

Can’t Find Bullets? Try American Bullet Company and Save Money « Daily Bulletin

We've been hearing that top-name bullets are in short supply right now, particularly in popular .224, 6mm and .308 calibers. Here's a new option for HPBT bullets that can serve for practice and local club matches. Creedmoor Sports now offers American Bullet Company bullets.

bulletin.accurateshooter.com

On the website they describe them as “all first run bullets, with no blems or seconds”. The 55gr bullets from the article are called out as seconds.

 

[eoperator]

Well now we know where all the 77s are

I would bet they are a lot of 77tmk's that are riding the line of being within acceptable tolerance that sierra decided to dump. Creedmoorsports buys alot of sierra 2nds.

 

[Lawnboi]

I would bet they are a lot of 77tmk's that are riding the line of being within acceptable tolerance that sierra decided to dump. Creedmoorsports buys alot of sierra 2nds.

I can’t bring myself to buy the seconds, especially at that price.

Luckily I’m able to hold tight and wait, and am not out of them.

 

[BryanL]

The creedmoor sports American Bullet Company ones don’t look like seconds that I can see. When I’ve got seconds in the past the tips are usually banged up or other weird obviously issues. Looking forward to loading these 77gr TMK up! FYI I think folks on this thread bought them out, since they were OOS pretty dang quick.

 

[4090Sharps]

The creedmoor sports American Bullet Company ones don’t look like seconds that I can see. When I’ve got seconds in the past the tips are usually banged up or other weird obviously issues. Looking forward to loading these 77gr TMK up! FYI I think folks on this thread bought them out, since they were OOS pretty dang quick.

The Creedmoor site is still showing them as available. Did you put an order in and have it backordered?

 

[grfox92]

The reasons why manufacturers don’t recommend certain bullets for hunting that absolutely perform superbly has been discussed in this thread and they “why match bullets for hunting” thread.

The 168gr ELD-M’s are fantastically killing bullets.

Thanks Form, I went back and re read the Match bullets for hunting thread and found some stuff thay I had read I'm the past, but must have forgot.

I'm going to mount my new Rockchucker and load up the 168g ELDM as my first bullets I have ever reloaded and see how they fly, fingers crossed.

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