215 Berger failure

[Ryan Avery]

I learned enough my friend...
Believe what you wish, I'm not here to change opinions but to provide feedback for those who are open minded and care about terminal performance

Open-minded people take in all info. Saying the 215 is a bad bullet off of one animal is very close-minded IMO.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I’m not trying to be a dick. Just witnessed weird bullet performance from almost all the different bullets I have used. The third bull shot this year with Atips was super under whelming. But the other two were devastating.

I would bet your next bull with 215s would be a totally different outcome.


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[MallardSX2]

Am I going to be the only dick here to ask a guy why the hell he would shoot at an elk at 680 yards for in the first place? I guess everyone else thinks this is perfectly acceptable. lol

 

[tdhanses]

Am I going to be the only dick here to ask a guy why the hell he would shoot at an elk at 680 yards for in the first place? I guess everyone else thinks this is perfectly acceptable. lol

Yes it is acceptable if your capable, obviously it wouldn’t be acceptable if you took that shot. If you don’t like Long Range Hunting look at the first thread in this forum section. Also just an FYI... 680 yards isn’t that far.

 

[Spoonman]

Am I going to be the only dick here to ask a guy why the hell he would shoot at an elk at 680 yards for in the first place? I guess everyone else thinks this is perfectly acceptable. lol

Although that is a lengthy poke, I think that has very little bearing on the original posters concern for bullet performance. If a person has practiced enough and know their capabilities I don’t see too much of an issue with the distance.

 

[Alex Wheeler]

I get feedback on a lot of the rifles I build and the fact is I hear failure stories from every popular bullet. The problem is guys expect a bullet to perform at 100 yards and at 1000 yards, through bone or soft tissue, and not even vital areas. I dont promote any particular bullet, I promote shot placement. You can't guarantee perfect bullet performance every time, but even a pencil hole through the heart wont run much over 100yds. I do shoot bergers, and I shoot every elk broadside in the heart/lungs, never had a bullet failure or needed a follow up shot. I have killed multiple elk with the 168 vld, 195 hybrid, 215 hybrid, and 300 hybrid.

 

[Browninglover1]

Am I going to be the only dick here to ask a guy why the hell he would shoot at an elk at 680 yards for in the first place? I guess everyone else thinks this is perfectly acceptable. lol

You are in the long range hunting forum. 680 on an elk is hardly difficult with today's equipment and an experienced marksman in a stable shooting position.

I agree with Avery, you shoot enough animals you'll eventually get a bullet to fail but the 215 Berger has TONS of documented kills with devastating results.

 

[Anozira]

I don't think you can judge shot distance without knowing the experience of the shooter. 680 yards can be a challenging shot for some and a walk in the park for others. It all boils down to range time and experience with your rifle. For example if someone doesn't know what a dope chart is or understands moa/ mil, 680 yards is going to be a Hail Mary. If the hunter spends a lot of time getting to know his equipment and its capabilities 680 isn't out of the question.

 

[OSU Fisher]

I by no means have the experience that someone like Ryan or Broz and others have when it comes to bullets/hunting let alone the Berger 215's... But after switching to them this year I am extremely happy with what I have seen. I agree with most that you will find fail/bad stories with any bullet if you read around or hunt enough. Things happen, this is not a perfect science. Way to many variables to get the exact same performance 100% of the time. I know there are tons of success stories and happy users out there and that's why I switched. I actually left a bullet you (OP) mentioned switching to ( Accubond LR) because I wasnt sold on their Game performance. I definitely wont be going back after this year. Myself and our group shot 4 bulls this year with the 215's. They were all between 400-700 yrds. All 4 were 1 shot bang flops. Not even one of them took a step. All 4 were lung shots. 2 completely broadside, 1 slightly quartering away and the other bedded slightly quartering away. no bullets were recovered but I didnt look for them either.. For me we had 4 dead elk, all 1 shot DRT. That was good enough for me! I'm not saying you didnt have an issue but not sure if I would totally write the bergers off.

 

[bigbulls]

I’m not trying to be a dick. Just witnessed weird bullet performance from almost all the different bullets I have used. The third bull shot this year with Atips was super under whelming. But the other two were devastating.

I would bet your next bull with 215s would be a totally different outcome.


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I would like to here more about this 3rd bull under whelming over on the Hornady A-Tip thread Ryan.

 

[Wrench]

I'd like a 215 partition with a. 988 bc.

At $3.99 per 100.

 

[wildwilderness]

Try a 208 eld-m same G1 bc @ .690 may get a bit more velocity as well saving 7 grs and less expensive and no tips to drill.

 

[elkguide]

Over the years that I spent guiding, I have seen a lot of elk taken with a lot of different bullets and I can't say that any one bullet performed a lot better than another. SST's, Ballistic Tips, Bergers all seemed to be pretty consistent at coming apart quickly and doing a lot of damage. Some definitely did not penetrate as deeply as others. Partitions, Game Kings, Accu Bonds, TTSX did seem to penetrate more consistently but also seemed to be the ones to leave two holes along with more of a tracking job.

The cow elk that I shot this year, was shot with a 210 VLD travelling at 3280 fps from a .300 RUM at 270 yards. The only shot that I had was a high lung shot to be clear of the sage brush. The bullet hit a rib on the way in and never reached the off side but it totally destroyed both lungs and I was actually able to watch the cow start to fall in her tracks before the recoil took me off target.

In my last 20 or so kills, all using different .30 caliber rifles, I have had great success with SST's, Ballistic Tips and several Berger bullets. The only animal to take more than 1 step after bullet impact was a 120 pound whitetail that had no lungs or heart left after the SST hit it but it still ran over 200 yards before it ran out of gas. Should I say that the SST is a poor bullet because that little deer ran that far? What I'm going with is that that little guy wanted to be a big boy and was so amped up that when I saw him running across the field and the 165 grain SST at 3350 fps from my .300 WSM hit him, he just didn't know that he was dead.


My theory for many years now has been to find the bullet that is the most accurate in the rifle that I am using and use that combination in that rifle.

 

[Dr. Rx]

Am I going to be the only dick here to ask a guy why the hell he would shoot at an elk at 680 yards for in the first place? I guess everyone else thinks this is perfectly acceptable. lol

Finally someone said it. I’ve been to chicken to ask that question

 

[Aoudadshooter1975]

I lost a nice axis buck last year with a 130 grain berger out of a 6.5 Grendel. I had been saying for years every time I dress out a whitetail, Axis, Aoudad or blackbuck I was going to lose one with the berger bullet performance. I had not until last year. I am using a ELD-X this year and accubond--I still love the way the bergers shoot--but am really careful of the game animals I shoot with them....

 

[Ryan Avery]

To the anti LR posts. I am going to say this one time. This is a LR forum go play somewhere else if it’s not your thing or I will make sure you don’t play here at all.


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[WesternHntr]

Am I going to be the only dick here to ask a guy why the hell he would shoot at an elk at 680 yards for in the first place? I guess everyone else thinks this is perfectly acceptable. lol

I guess I'd better not tell you about the bull I dropped in it's tracks last year at 940 yards...
One shot with an ELDM.
I don't take long range shots Willy nilly, I've been obsessively shooting beyond 1200 yards for over a decade and I always get as close as possible.

I get feedback on a lot of the rifles I build and the fact is I hear failure stories from every popular bullet. The problem is guys expect a bullet to perform at 100 yards and at 1000 yards, through bone or soft tissue, and not even vital areas. I dont promote any particular bullet, I promote shot placement. You can't guarantee perfect bullet performance every time, but even a pencil hole through the heart wont run much over 100yds. I do shoot bergers, and I shoot every elk broadside in the heart/lungs, never had a bullet failure or needed a follow up shot. I have killed multiple elk with the 168 vld, 195 hybrid, 215 hybrid, and 300 hybrid.

I don't believe in one bullet for every range, that is the stupidest thing a hunter can do in my opinion.
You will absolutely lose an animal someday with frangible bullets at high velocity impacts, I've done it.

I ALWAYS carry bonded bullets in the mag (partitions) and switch out for my LR cartridge beyond 300 yards

I really can't believe how edgy everyone is getting because I shared a negative experience with the 215's!

There may not be a perfect bullet out there, but I'm eliminating the ones from my personal use that have failed me.

I've posted my honest results, and I hope it's been informative for someone out there.
I'm out fellas
Good luck and shoot straight

 

[dirtytough]

Just like mentioned several times. One bullet someone says is gold another someone says is the worst performing bullet out there. After using ELD M’s I really really dislike their performance. After seeing the bull my wife shot @200 yards, high shoulder, with a 168 Berger I’m sold. There was no way that bull shouldn’t of needed a follow up shot. But it didn’t. And there was zero blood shot.

My dad and wife put as close to identical shots on deer as you can get. One was a 168 Berger, the other a 180 ELD M. The deer shot with the Berger dropped. The deer shot with the ELD ran 70 yards and I never saw a drop of blood.

After 14-15 kills with the ELD in two years I’m done using them. But other guys love them. The animals I see shot with Bergers just drop and are done. The animals I’ve shot and seen shot with the ELD seem to take forever to die.

The OP obviously had a different experience. Good thing there are a ton of choices and more every day.

 

[Youngbuck86]

I shot several Coues and an Ibex when I was shooting 215s from my RUM. After loading the 212 ELDX for 2 other RUMs, I wont use anything else. We've had impressive results on every critter we've used them on. I've had plenty of unexplained issues on plenty of brands, weights, calibers, and styles of bullets. The 212 ELDX have been very impressive thus far.

 

[Dr. Rx]

To the anti LR posts. I am going to say this one time. This is a LR forum go play somewhere else if it’s not your thing or I will make sure you don’t play here at all.


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I apologize for my comment . You are correct this is A LR forum and I will be the first to say I had no business to make such a comment. Thank you .
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