2 vs 3 vs 4 blade broadhead????? Bloodtrails

[bignocks]

I dont know if an unbiased opinion or study is even possible but Im curious on what everyone thinks. Is there any studies done on if total cutting surface is equal do animals bleed more or less with a 2, 3, or 4 blade broadhead. I think broadheads are mainly designed for the bad shots (u can kill with a sharp point if shot is perfect, IMO). Im also not comparing mech vs fixed. For example a 2 blade 2 in cut of a rage or a 2in total cut of a 4 blade slick trick (1in x 1in). Does anyone have experience or have seen any kind of study done besides a milk jug on animal blood trails. Perfect shots dont always happen and when you have to track and elk or whitetail its nice to give the animal the best chance at being found and not going to waste. Thanks in advance.

 

[Btaylor]

I think bloodtrails generally come down to are there 2 holes, where are the 2 holes and what parts did the head hit going through? Sometimes there is just no explaining a great trail from a poor shot or a poor trail from a great looking shot. At the end of your post you switch gear though by mentioning a less than perfect shot and here is where I think a difference can be seen more readily. In this case I think cutting diameter makes a difference in that the larger the cutting diameter, the more internal damage and possibly more faster an poorly hit animal will bed as well as an increased likelihood of being able to trail on body fluids other than blood. I dont think it is as simple as diameter though. You cant just say shoot a big diameter cut head without taking into consideration the rest of the variables such as bow, arrow and shooter.

At the end of the day I think the best you can advise someone to do is shoot a head that is sharp, and tuned for their bow and arrow combination.

 

[JP100]

Have a look through the ashby studies, you can find them on the Grizzly stick website.

From what I have seen in the field I do think 3 or 4 blades bleed more than 2 blades.
But there is alot of variables.

I think penetration is the most important factor, as above 2 holes is always better than one.

I went to 2 blade single bevel broad heads from 3 blades. And noticed way more reliable penetration but blood trails were less visible.

The animals ive seen shot with the big mechanicals have huge bleeding, but often lack penetration.

I think of it like I do with bullets.
Expansion and penetration are often at odds to each other and you need to find the compromise that works for you.

For a gut shot type scenario a massive mechanical is good I think, mor likely to hit the liver/kidney or some arteries.

For any bone type shot I think a fixed single bevel is best.

With a good shot you hardly need to track animals at all.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

 

[bsnedeker]

I think the most important factor to give you the best chance for a good blood trail is having an entrance and and exit. For me this means I want a BH with the greatest possible penetration. In my, admittedly, limited experience testing out various blades on whitetail does, I shoot a 2 or 3 blade fixed head. Adding a 4th blade seems to have an impact on penetration, and mechanical are KE vampires.

Other than that I think it just boils down to what shoots best out of your bow.

 

[larryschwartz]

bignocks,

You are talking about two different things here, how much bleeding happens and how much blood leaks out of the animal for the bloodtrail. There are different factors at play for each, as has been mentioned above, but this might shed some light on what you need to think about. There will be trade offs to consider.

The amount of bleeding is dependent upon how much tissue and blood vessels are cut while the broadhead passes into and hopefully through the animal. A wider cutting radius will cut more tissue for the same depth of penetration, as you noted. However, it also provides more drag and increases the odds of running into something like bone and cartilage that will absorb energy and reduce momentum and therefore penetration. More blades will provide more cutting surface and can be a good thing as long as they are not so wide that they hit more bone. A 1:3 ratio of width to length seems to provide the best tradeoff of penetration and cutting surface. Heads like the Snuffer, Wensel Woodsman, and the Harold Hill style head all have this 1:3 ratio. You also want a cut on contact head and fixed blades loose less energy than mechanicals as they penetrate.

Now let's talk about blood trails. If your hit is high on the animal then the body cavity has to fill up with blood before it starts to really leak out of the entry hole. For this reason it is best to aim for a hit on the lower part of the animal so there isn't as much interior space to fill with blood. Also, an exit hole, as noted above, will give a better blood trail than just an entry hole; this brings us back to penetration. So, use a heavy arrow to maximize momentum, which is more important for penetration than KE is.

The other part of blood trailing is how easily the blood leaves the body. A head with three or more blades will not close up as easily as one with just two blades. There is a reason why triangular bayonets were outlawed by the Geneva Convention, the wound would not close on its own. Three blades seems to be the best tradeoff when it comes to number of blades.

Now you have the information, you just need to pick what will work best for you in your situation. If you want to know what I chose, it is a 125 gr Snuffer on a 450-500 grain aluminum arrow. Good mass and an effective head for anything in North America.

Larry

 

[SKYNET KC]

Man, there's a lot of things that go into blood trails that we will never be able to take into account.

I've seen blood trails from single bevels that looked like a murder scene from Jason, and i've seen some where there's hardly any blood at all.

Here is what we do know,

1. The sharper your broadhead is, the cleaner cut it will apply to arteries, capillaries and blood vessesls as it passes through. If the cut is clean, it is much more difficult to clot, which will result in more blood exiting the body cavity.

2. We know that single bevels and single bevels only will have the "star" effect. They can and will cut much larger holes than their cutting diamater and it acts as sort of a vortex to surrounding tissue. Literally turns a lot of it to mush because it acts like a damn blender.

In short, there is no real answer. Just make sure your broadheads are stupid sharp and that will give you the best chance for a solid blood trail.

 

[roadrunner]

Everything archery these days, outside of bow mechanics, is anecdotal. My anecdote is I prefer a three blade broadhead, although last years bull bleed pretty good using a 4 blade ST...

 

[dzlfarmboy]

The way I see it is If you shot was a tad off with a two blade and say it was off to the left or right and the blade opened vertically and not horizontaly you could total miss a vital where a 3 blade would have a higher percent chance of opening and hitting a vital.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Milk jugs will never prove anything in regards to how much blood will be lost. It isn't account for blood pressure, actually tissue, location of the hit, animal muscle density and the list goes on.

I have shot animals with (many more but I forget half of them over the years:
2 blade: RMS cutthroats, Magnus
3 blade: QAD Exodus, muzzy, Montec, Thunderhead, Nap Nitrons,
4 blade: Slicktricks Magnum, Slicktrick standard, slicktrick Grizztrick,

One thing I have found out is generally the number of blades and cutting width do not matter IF you pick a broadhead with QUALITY steel that has a HARDNESS that will actually hold it's edge while CUTTING through the animal. I have had two blade broadheads produc bloodtrails that far exceeding that of a Slicktrick Girzztrick hole and I have had EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM produce crappy blood trails. But one thing is certain if I pick a quality broadhead, keep is razor sharp, try to aim for the lower third of the animal, whether on the ground or elevated (lower third exit for elevated), I will have a good blood trail or good enough to follow to find the animal.

 

[87TT]

I was hoping to check and see my blood trail from my 2 blade single bevels (Kudupoint) this year but after finding my blood soaked arrow from a pass through, it busted out raining. Thunderstorm only lasted about 15 minutes but never saw blood. I did find a dead elk.

 

[Beendare]

My experience mirror Brandons above. I would rate the factors for a good blood trail;

Shot location [lower 1/3rd preferrably] 80%

2 holes in the animal- 10%

The BH- 10% [I like a strong tapered design fixed head to help retain blade sharpness]

I've shot every design of BH and have seen better blood trails from a 2 blade than a big mech....and vice versa DUE TO SHOT LOCATION. A big mech head shot high on an animal with one hole doesn't give you a miraculous blood trail no matter what the ads say.

Believe it or not-GRIN-....a lot of this bowhunting comes down to us....and how well we perform in the woods.

........

 

[SoDaky]

Amen.
I agree about the '2 hole' argument for the most part.Almost always better bloodtrails.However I can think of a fair number of instances where a broadhead that remains inside has resulted in recoveries on lousy hits.Recoveries that I doubt would have occurred otherwise.One or 2 of mine included.

 

[Brandon_SPC]

Amen.
I agree about the '2 hole' argument for the most part.Almost always better bloodtrails.However I can think of a fair number of instances where a broadhead that remains inside has resulted in recoveries on lousy hits.Recoveries that I doubt would have occurred otherwise.One or 2 of mine included.

Question how did you come up with the conclusion that the broadhead staying inside the animal would have killed a lot faster than a broadhead putting two holes through the animal? Reason I ask this is all the tracking trips I have gone on has resulted in far less animals recovered with one hole vs two holes. The majority of animals I have help track that have two seem to cover far less distance than animal with an arrow still in them.

 

[SoDaky]

I hear your concerns on this but have tracked literally hundreds of critters(outfitted awhile)and have seen cases where hits(primarily hits too far back)where the arrow remained in and cut a horrific mess internally by it's movement caused by the animal itself running and/or the arrow sticking out and catching on brush,trees whatever.
IMO creating easier recoveries vs often losses-especially in the case of bears.

 

[elkstabber]

Like many on here my experience has shown that shot location is the #1 factor for lethality.

But that's not what the OP asked. Bignocks asked which fixed blade broadheads leave more blood on the ground.

Assuming that the arrow passes through the animal and that guts didn't plug the hole on the far side:

I've found that 3 blades put more blood on the ground than 2 blades. I've taken 50-100 animals with a recurve. Most of them were with a 3 blade head. The blood loss from 4 blade heads were roughly equal to that of the 3 blade heads. What is surprising is that the animals died within the same distance, but they were easier to track with a 3 blade. That is my answer to the OP's question.

Now I'll go a little further. Lots of people think that bloodloss equates to lethality. It doesn't. The lethality that we're usually seeking is called "pneumothorax", which means collapsing both lungs. This is a double lung shot. Any broadhead will do this and I suspect, any field point will too. When the lining of the chest walls is punctured it allows outside air into the lungs and they collapse. The chest may expand and contract but the lungs will stay collapsed because the chest is "leaking" air. Suffocation is the result and it kills quickly. Despite what many of us were taught in Hunter's Education classes animals rarely die from blood loss. They only die from blood loss when we miss the ideal double lung shot.

 

[Bill V]

As others have said, shot placement and getting an exit hole have a lot to do with the amount of blood on the ground. A two blade cut on contact head will give you more penetration, but with a single slice the holes are more likely to close up. My original broadhead design was a two blade with no bleeder and I would occasionally get a very poor blood trail. Adding the 3/4 inch bleeder creates a cross cut and keeps the hole open for a better blood trail similar to a three blade or four blade head. Here is a photo on the entrance hole from my bull elk this year. I think a two blade with a 3/4" bleeder gives a great combination of maximum penetration and good blood trails.

 

[Btaylor]

As others have said, shot placement and getting an exit hole have a lot to do with the amount of blood on the ground. A two blade cut on contact head will give you more penetration, but with a single slice the holes are more likely to close up. My original broadhead design was a two blade with no bleeder and I would occasionally get a very poor blood trail. Adding the 3/4 inch bleeder creates a cross cut and keeps the hole open for a better blood trail similar to a three blade or four blade head. Here is a photo on the entrance hole from my bull elk this year. I think a two blade with a 3/4" bleeder gives a great combination of maximum penetration and good blood trails.
View attachment 125746

Looks like that one leaked a little.