Thinkingman
WKR
Dawson.
I've used two.
An option is the XS Big Dot front sight.
I've used it and you get the best of both worlds.
1911’s in general, 9mm versions specifically
- Thread starter Formidilosus
- Start date
I've used two.
An option is the XS Big Dot front sight.
I've used it and you get the best of both worlds.
Southernfried
Lil-Rokslider
Well, looks like Sig is coming out with their own 2011 that uses P320 magazines.......Sig P211 Havent seen a cost on it yet.......rumor is 2300+......wow
RussDXT
WKR
If they took 365 mags and were reasonably priced I’d be interested. With the 320’s going off randomly why they do anything but kill that whole platform is beyond me.
The 320s firing completely on their own always seemed pretty suspect to me. Both the trigger and striker block safety have to "mysteriously" fail at the same time for that to happen. Doesn't seem anyone can replicate it, I don't think.
OTOH, a trigger being accidentally pulled or partially pulled goes a long way in providing a rational, repeatable explanation.
Does using the same mags somehow correlate to having the drop safety issues?
RockAndSage
WKR
Now that looks pretty interesting...love the fact it's using 320 mags, too.
I like my guns to not go off in their holsters, hard pass
Didn't realize the P211 (released less than 24 hours ago) had already been confirmed to have drop safety issues. And somehow it's because it uses P320 mags.
Settle down Francis, lighten up
Won't trust a company that refuses to fix their product and denies having any issues
www.bing.com
www.bing.com
sig p320 accidental discharges - Search Videos
sig p320 fires holstered - Search Videos
Billogna
WKR
FWIW - According to the interwebs - The unintended discharge issue was able to be replicated by an independent researcher that found that in their experiments, it was a certain combination of faulty parts (wrong take down lever from a different caliber (40 cal or 45 i think?) and some of the MIM parts) they were able to get a 320 to fire without pulling the trigger consistently and repeatably.
I personally have tried my damndest to get mine to release the striker by dropping it and smacking the crap out of it with a rubber mallet at all angles... all to no avail. I guess I got a good one?? lol Mine was also sent in for the recall a few years back.
RussDXT
WKR
Nope, but the 320 has issues. Not so much with the 365. Thus I have a 365 and no 320.
Southernfried
Lil-Rokslider
Username checks out lol
Ya, that was my understanding as well. Seems a stretch but man has it turned into an issue.
RussDXT
WKR
SIG SAUER INTEL REPORT
Document Format Note: This document uses the document tab function native to Google Docs. To read ALL of the document, use the mobile application or web-based version. The .pdf version of this document originally posted will not contain any live updates or changes made. Version 1.0.1 Introduc...
docs.google.com
It may be an issue, it may not. I personally wouldn’t carry one loaded, but if someone wants to no worries here.
Billogna
WKR
If this research pinpoints the problem then the issue is the "interchangeability" of the parts/platform itself. They and we are victims of their own ingenuity. If you put a gun together incorrectly one would hope it should cease to function at all... But in the 320's case it "alters" the function in a very dangerous way.
I would think that this would also be apparent in the pistols purported to have fired on their own (??). Seems like it would be pretty easy to confirm, especially on a pistol purported to have such and issue. I'd think the issue would be repeatable on said pistol and the problem would be observable, but it hasn't seemed to be (??)
Billogna
WKR
That HAS been a bit of a boogeyman here! But I'm unaware how much testing on those guns was actually done and if the findings were made public knowledge. I know SIG was able to repeat it in earlier versions of the gun (hence the recall). It IS worth noting that it took an independent researcher to be transparent about their findings with the general public tho! Another thing of note is that is seems a VAST majority of these claims are 2018 and after. I got my 320 in late 2015 or early 2016 and sent it in for the recall. It seems that there were very few of that era that had any issues at all.
Didn't mean to hijack the thread!!
Form: I'm interested to hear more about this, and about your thoughts about this project in general, as well as the idea of buying an entry-level 1911 to 'tweak' vs simply buying something more mid-tier.
Part of the relevant context for me is that, on the basis of the 9mm thread and this one, I was prompted to pick up a Bul Armory EDC 5" 1911 in 9mm. Not sure of the US retail there, but the local price here was about US$1800.
The fit and finish seem fine, and the slide cycles smoothly. Slide to frame fit seems tight. Trigger is fairly tight, and has about 2mm of take up before what feels to me like a crisp break. Safety is smooth, easy to engage and disengage, and crisply clicks on and off.
'Pointability' was just as you describe - almost intuitive, and all first rounds went on target without either sighting in or familarising myself to the platform. Bill Drills were as fast on first use as pistols that I'm more familiar with.
Overall, it was pleasant to shoot, and your case for the grip and thumb safety is starting to make a lot of sense to me - I also went back and re-read some of Mas Ayoob making similar observations / recommendations.
However, despite there not being anything specifically 'wrong' with the pistol, compared to DA/SAs I've used (CZ 85 Combat, Shadow 2, and P-07s), something overall still feels fairly chunky and almost 'agricultural', about the Bul. Given that it's my first 1911, I don't know if this is just that it's an 'entry-to-mid-tier' offering, or is just part of the old-school 1911 design and construction.
Anyway, yesterday I was able to take a look at a Tanfoglio Witness Custom, also 5" in 9mm, for comparison. I understand that, as with some other 1911s, their frames are made by Armscor in the Phillipines, and they're then finished in Italy.
Compared to the Bul: the Tanfog was the equivalent of about US$750 in local currency, or nearly one-third the cost of the Bul. The slide was sloppy, and not as smooth cycling. The trigger has a lot of space above it at the top (a known issue from the very little I've been able to find online), and wiggled from side to side so much that I couldn't see how one could make clean trigger presses or accurate shots with it. The thumb safety needed a lot of effort to engage or disengage - it was clunky, stiff, and nowhere near as refined as anything else I've handled.
Given this particular pistol is currently on sale and discounted by about 40%, I'd initially been curious to purchase it to use as a 'host' platform and see where it would get to with modifications - similar to your Girsan project, but hopefully with a better beginning point. (And I admit that I was probably being a bit snobby about not wanting to try a Tisas, and assumed that the Tanfog would be better quality, being Italian.)
But having handled it, I was already thinking I'd need to replace the safety, trigger, and possibly bushing, in addition to the extractor. The dealer agreed.
So at that point, I was left wondering: if that's what it would take to get to a point of better handling, but still a loose frame, even if assuming accuracy was good, and I was then in for about US$1000 all up, is that worth it?
I know this is not a fair comparison, as the retail prices will be far different in the US, and we don't have as much access to other 1911s here (mostly just Bul, Ruger, Tisas, and Tanfog).
Also aware that this is a bit of a 'value is in the eye of the beholder' situation. But I guess I'm wondering overall - if it takes a lot of effort to get to an 'okay' outcome for, say, half the cost, is there any value in that compared to just going with something known to work out of the box but for double the cost? I know above you said you'd be happy to carry the modified Girsan - but I'm guessing that, given the choice, you'd go with something higher-end and more proven?
Of course, in my specific case, I already have the Bul, so the Tanfog would be more an exercise in learning what it takes to get something up to speed, and the outcome would be something I think I'd still regard as a 'beater' gun, whereas the Bul, while clearly not a Nighthawk, Wilson, etc, is perfectly serviceable for my needs.
Not sure if any of that makes sense; interested in any reflections you might have. Cheers!
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