Zone 2 Training

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

I'm a little late to the Zone 2 training idea but have been trying to implement it this year. After listening to this Exo podcast, I realized I've definitely been more in Zone 3 and not spending enough hours on it.

Hunt Backcountry Podcast 475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project

Mark is joined by Scott Johnston, author of Training for the Uphill Athlete, owner of Evoke Endurance, and an outdoorsman and athlete with decades of experience. They discuss the physical demands of mountain hunting, what hunters can learn from other athletes, and the best way to train for...

exomtngear.com

Anyone here doing a lot of Zone 2 training for hunting and, if so, how are you mixing it in with strength training? Has it helped your performance in the mountains?

 

[rickyw]

I'm a little late to the Zone 2 training idea but have been trying to implement it this year. After listening to this Exo podcast, I realized I've definitely been more in Zone 3 and not spending enough hours on it.

Hunt Backcountry Podcast 475 | Proven Training Methods for the Mountain Hunter — The Experience Project

Mark is joined by Scott Johnston, author of Training for the Uphill Athlete, owner of Evoke Endurance, and an outdoorsman and athlete with decades of experience. They discuss the physical demands of mountain hunting, what hunters can learn from other athletes, and the best way to train for...

exomtngear.com

Anyone here doing a lot of Zone 2 training for hunting and, if so, how are you mixing it in with strength training? Has it helped your performance in the mountains?

Zone 2 is the way to go. Increased capacity for long days and nights in the mountains. Check out the book Uphill Athlete, which is a great tie over to mountain hunters.

 

[P Carter]

Yes, yes, and yes. You can go as in-depth about this as you want, but I think the real key is consistency and sustainability (low-intensity). Basically, I do zone 2/aerobic training in the morning, every morning, 5-7 days a week. Strength training and other hunting-specific training (shooting, weighted pack carries, which I view as a muscular endurance workout, etc.) either come in the afternoon, or I'll do an 8-week block of weighted pack carries in the morning in place of a zone 2/aerobic training. The reptition can lead to injury, so start low and build it up. Maybe 20 minutes each day, then building up from there. I try to do an hour of zone 2/aerobic 6 days a week, for an hour each. WHen I'm building for a race or long run I'll do one long run per week, usually 1.5 or 2 hours, but a few in the 3 or 4 hour range. It takes a long time to build but has been great for me.

Edit: Yes, I read training for the uphill athlete and training for the new alpinism. This year, I purchased and have followed a training plan from uphill athlete and it's been great, as well. Happy to answer some questions but I'm far from an expert. Everyone comes from a different background, too, which can dictate the appropriate approach. I came to hunting from ultra-running, so to me the big change was adding the strength training, whereas many folks come from a strength background and add the zone 2/aerobic.

 

[Muddler]

Been doing Zone 2 for several years and really enjoy it. On days that I lift, I do my Zone 2 first, then lift.

I haven't listened to the exo podcast, but if you want a pretty deep dive on it, check out Peter Attia:

#85 - Iñigo San Millán, Ph.D.: Zone 2 Training and Metabolic Health - Peter Attia

“What I have been seeing for 25 years, working with elite athletes, is that [zone 2] is the exercise intensity where I see the biggest improvement in fat burning and the biggest improvement in lactic clearance capacity. Therefore, that means that the mitochondria is where you see the biggest...

peterattiamd.com

That's just one episode. He has a bunch of others where he discusses Zone 2 and Zone 5 training.

 

[Poser]

I just wrote a pretty long post on this podcast in the other thread about arriving at this conclusion about zone 2. During the summer months, I get the bulk of mine on the weekends out scouting, fishing etc. That being said, I do a training hike on Wednesday mornings. May thru August, this is a zone 3, unweighted hike, but once August hits, I convert that to a zone 2 hike as well.

In the winter, I do quite a bit of zone 2 skinning on the weekends for backcountry skiing, but I also have a gym workout of rowing 5-10,000 meters and then doing 20-30 minutes of box step-ups all in zone 2. I will occasionally do a short cycle of interval training for a few weeks in the shoulder seasons, but I'd say 90% or more of what I do these days outside of strength training is zone 2 endurance.

 

[Turkeygetpwnd38]

I haven’t listen to the podcast but been doing a ton of zone 2 the past 3 years after reading training for the new alpinism book. It has made a HUGE difference.
I used to do a lot of strength training and HIT stuff because that worked for years with keeping in shape and strong. I could manage fine in the mountains but was always gassed after a few days. Swapping to doing long interval zone 2 training 4-6 times a week, strength train 3-4, and some HIT maybe 1-2 was the ticket for me. Remember that “base” is built over long term, think months/years. It really makes a difference.

 

[vladkgb]

I'm also new to this idea and integrated zone 2 in my training routine this year.

Last year, I did 2-3x a week of hiking with a heavy pack (65#) up a really steep hill and down for 1 mile (zone 3-4). The other 3x a week I did a minimalist lifting routine which was just squat, bench, row, deadlift, overhead press. I hunted 10 days in Montana last year and was hiking 10 miles a day on average, I felt fine while steady hiking, but when I had to hurry to get up hill, I felt gassed quickly. I felt like I didn't have enough cardio and the muscle I built and maintained demanded a lot of oxygen when doing high intensity hikes.

According to studies you should do 80% zone 2 and 20% zone 3+ for optimal cardio gains. So this year I'm doing 3x zone 2 and 1x zone 3+ (the same uphill hike). I do the minimalist lifting routine on MWF and cardio on Tu, Th, Sa, Su. One of those cardio days will be the zone 3 Hill climb he rest are zone 2 stair master for at least 45 minutes.

 

[Shootinsurveyor]

Just recently got a Heart rate monitor. All of my workouts seem to end up high zone 3/zone 4. This is either rucking for 2-3 miles or 3 miles on the elliptical. Staying in zone 2 seems to be too easy. Could someone explain how zone 2 benefits me with my workouts or do i just need to go less intense for longer? Honest question

 

[Cactus kid]

Edit: Yes, I read training for the uphill athlete and training for the new alpinism. This year, I purchased and have followed a training plan from uphill athlete and it's been great, as well. Happy to answer some questions but I'm far from an expert. Everyone comes from a different background, too, which can dictate the appropriate approach. I came to hunting from ultra-running, so to me the big change was adding the strength training, whereas many folks come from a strength background and add the zone 2/aerobic.

I have read the TFNA a few times and have completed the 24 week mountaineering plan for two different hunts. It works for sure. 15+ hours of week to train is a big commitment.

The best quote I have heard involving endurance training
"Run a lot. Some of it fast."

Basically a ton of zone 2 training with ocasional zone 4.

 

[Cactus kid]

Just recently got a Heart rate monitor. All of my workouts seem to end up high zone 3/zone 4. This is either rucking for 2-3 miles or 3 miles on the elliptical. Staying in zone 2 seems to be too easy. Could someone explain how zone 2 benefits me with my workouts or do i just need to go less intense for longer? Honest question

Zone 2 builds the mitochondria that will support higher/longer efforts. Zone 2 is EASY. Nose breathing pace. Conversational pace. Zone 2 is the all day pace. Going less intense for longer is the key for Z2.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Zone 2 builds the mitochondria that will support higher/longer efforts. Zone 2 is EASY. Nose breathing pace. Conversational pace. Zone 2 is the all day pace. Going less intense for longer is the key for Z2.

Does long term, consistent zone 2 training also raise your zone 2 upper limit in terms of heart rate? Or rather, your heart rate at higher levels of effort falls into zone 2? If that makes sense.

 

[Poser]

Does long term, consistent zone 2 training also raise your zone 2 upper limit in terms of heart rate? Or rather, your heart rate at higher levels of effort falls into zone 2? If that makes sense.

Yes. Time spent in zone 2 will increase the threshold between zone 2 and zone 3.

 

[Cactus kid]

Does long term, consistent zone 2 training also raise your zone 2 upper limit in terms of heart rate? Or rather, your heart rate at higher levels of effort falls into zone 2? If that makes sense.

That is the idea- you will get faster at the upper limit of zone 2 for the same level of perceived effort.

When the upper zone 2 heart rate is within 10% of your max heart rate, it is advised that you add a small amout of zone 4 in addition to zone 2 training to see further results.

 

[Cactus kid]

Simple formulas to get a good idea of the upper limit of zone 2:

MAF formula:

180- Age

Nose breathing test:
The max heart rate you can sustain for many minutes while breathing with only your nose.

 

[P Carter]

Just recently got a Heart rate monitor. All of my workouts seem to end up high zone 3/zone 4. This is either rucking for 2-3 miles or 3 miles on the elliptical. Staying in zone 2 seems to be too easy. Could someone explain how zone 2 benefits me with my workouts or do i just need to go less intense for longer? Honest question

This is addressed in the podcast. Yes, it feels too easy. But the only way to build the aerobic system is nudging it up from below. You can't pull it up from above. As you build up your aerobic system, you'll be able to move faster and faster at aerobic-level effort (lower heartrate). But it takes time to build it up - going less hard, for longer, consistently for a long period of time. Like a block of 12 weeks.

Also, if the duration is less than a 1/2 hour, I don't think you're really triggering aerobic adaptations anyway.

This is assuming that the HR monitor is working correctly and the "zones" are set correctly. Probably want to check that, and as a "gut check" see if the zone 2 indicated on the HR monitor corresponds with conversational pace. (I put "zones" in quotes b/c i think the term conveys a degree of precision that doesn't dovetail with the physiology...as I understand it, you "slide" through the zones, with the aerobic and anaerobic energy systems changing in proportion as intensity increases.)

 

[mtwarden]

Glad to see folks getting "turned on" to this information.

Aerobic capacity training will seldom be found in 8-10-12 week "training programs" that seem to be so popular; BUT if you're a backpack hunter you will want to train for aerobic capacity (with most of this training at or near Zone 2).

Aerobic conditioning is the "long game", measured in years not weeks.

 

[Muddler]

Just recently got a Heart rate monitor. All of my workouts seem to end up high zone 3/zone 4. This is either rucking for 2-3 miles or 3 miles on the elliptical. Staying in zone 2 seems to be too easy. Could someone explain how zone 2 benefits me with my workouts or do i just need to go less intense for longer? Honest question

The Attia podcast I posted above explains it well. Cactus Kid gave the TLDR version basically.

One thing to be aware of, some watches or heart rate monitors will tell you what "zone" your in, but it might not line up with your real zone 2. I can't remember what device I was using...but my zone 2 was around 130 bpm, that device said I was in zone 3. I believe zone 2 is typically 65-70% of your max heart rate, which is how I got 130, coupled with perceived exertion

 

[WDO]

Simple formulas to get a good idea of the upper limit of zone 2:

MAF formula:

180- Age

Nose breathing test:
The max heart rate you can sustain for many minutes while breathing with only your nose.

Agreed on the MAF formula.

Zone 2 is great, but with it coming into the spotlight there's alot of stuff to wade through. I did alot of zone 2 at at the lower end and didn't see the best results. You need to be towards the top. And as others have mentioned, you can't just blindly use a heart rate monitor.

"The Nonprophet Podcast" has an episode or two on zone 2, but is also a solid podcast on fitness and fitness related info. They can pontificate, and have stronger personalities, but they make you think.

Additionally, I gathered this from the nonprophet guys and tend to agree. While zone 2 is overall great, the method should be analyzed. Any zone 2 helps, but the more transferrable the better (ie, running and rucking helps hiking, stationary bike not AS much).

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

For anyone with a Polar or other heart rate monitor, it has a “fitness test” mode where you lie down for 5 minutes and breathe normally. It then establishes your VO2 max and zones. Is that pretty accurate?

I’m still planning on doing a (second) heart rate drift test to confirm my zone 2 threshold. I broke into zone 3 about 30 minutes in so need to drop the speed on the stair climber.

Edit: answered my first question above.

 

[Cactus kid]

"The Nonprophet Podcast" has an episode or two on zone 2, but is also a solid podcast on fitness and fitness related info. They can pontificate, and have stronger personalities, but they make you think.

Additionally, I gathered this from the nonprophet guys and tend to agree. While zone 2 is overall great, the method should be analyzed. Any zone 2 helps, but the more transferrable the better (ie, running and rucking helps hiking, stationary bike not AS much).

Nonprophet is great. For those who don't know, the host is Mark Twight. He wrote the foreword to TFNA and wrote the OG mountaineering book "Extreme Alpinism." Also was the reason the dudes in the movie 300 were so shredded. A polarizing personality to say the least, but he knows his stuff.