Zeiss "Lifetime" Warranty - refusal to stand behind its product

[Npis2001]

Wow I'm glad to see this report. Zeiss was on my radar but now thinking twice.

 

[S.Clancy]

I just bought a pair of Zeiss SFL 10x40. After several weeks of use, dropped them hard on a concrete floor, knocked the collimation of the barrels off. Shipped to Zeiss (my dime), they replaced in just over a week. No hassle.

That has been the experience of others I know with recent models. In all honesty, I would not fault Zeiss at all for not honoring their warranty on 20+ yr old products, at some point things go beyond their design life. Same reason REI went away from the "Lifetime" or whatever guarantee it was on their stuff, bunch of dudes trying to fleece them on gear well beyond its useful life.

 

[Macintosh]

I agree, and you are missing the point. The point is that at no place do they say what that reasonable life of the product is. Is it 20 years? Is it 10? 5? 1?

 

[S.Clancy]

I agree, and you are missing the point. The point is that at no place do they say what that reasonable life of the product is. Is it 20 years? Is it 10? 5? 1?

You could call and ask.

I understand why companies say "Limited Lifetime", it's a marketing tool. Orvis has always had the 25-year guarantee, that's about the most you could ask any recreational product to last and is more than fair to the consumer.

 

[Macintosh]

Exactly. Orvis TELLS the customer up front what “lifetime” means, ie 25 years in the case of their rods. Zeiss, calling their warranty lifetime with a wishy-washy and non-specific caveat in the fine print—without even hinting at the criteria they will use to determine if a product is within its reasonably expected lifespan—is all marketing spin with nothing to back it up. The issue is not that the period of time is unreasonable, the issue is that we dont know what it is and few people are going to ask until its too late. It might be reasonable, but if it’s not very generous (as it seems), its awfully close to deceptive.

 

[Winnie]

Lets say you call and ask. Hypothetically they reply 7 years is our definition of Lifetime. What are the odds that you get that same answer from them 6.5 years down the road?

The problem is, manufacturers are choosing to use the term "Lifetime" knowing that most consumers have a different definition than what the manufacturer does. That is deceptive in my book. They are taking advantage of the term on the sales end and the warranty end. Just define it for crying out loud!!

 

[TheBootBowhunting]

I get the "reasonable life" argument on some things. Darn Tough has an unconditional lifetime warranty, but they make damn good socks and every pair Ive ever retired, I got longer use out of them than youd expect. Ive never thought of sending them in for replacement. But I just dont see it the same way with the $ Zeiss charges for their optics if they are saying its a lifetime warranty.

I think if Zeiss offered something like a 15-25 year warranty up front, I dont think that would affect their sales very much. It also wouldnt be deceptive, people tend to get on board with honesty up front. The problem is, they call it lifetime. You cant move the goalposts to something that isnt written, anywhere.

 

[nobody]

I get the "reasonable life" argument on some things. Darn Tough has an unconditional lifetime warranty, but they make damn good socks and every pair Ive ever retired, I got longer use out of them than youd expect. Ive never thought of sending them in for replacement. But I just dont see it the same way with the $ Zeiss charges for their optics if they are saying its a lifetime warranty.

I think if Zeiss offered something like a 15-25 year warranty up front, I dont think that would affect their sales very much. It also would be deceptive, people tend to get on board with honesty up front. The problem is, they call it lifetime. You cant move the goalposts to something that isnt written, anywhere.

This. Leatherman tools comes to mind. They have a 25 year warranty, which is insane for a pocket tool like that. Nobody bats an eye because they spell it out in black and white on their website:

So in other words, Leatherman feels the useful life of their tools is 25 years. Fine by me, no fine print or "gotcha" marketing or anything. I buy and use leatherman and so does everybody at our company as well as all my family members. My dad snapped the blade off his Leatherman wave a few years ago. When he did, he was on about year 19 of use on that tool. He's in HVAC and uses his multi-tool daily, so he decided to test the warranty.. He filled out the form, and Leatherman contacted him within a week and gave him the option to either just have a new model Wave sent to him, or they would give him credit towards an upgraded model. He elected to take the credit and got their new P4 tool and just paid the difference. He didn't mind at all and felt well taken care of, because Leatherman didn't try to pull the wool over his eyes.

I don't love that Leica is only a 10 year warranty based upon their cost, but at least they don't hide the 10 year thing. I would take that over Zeiss' murky approach to their warranty. If they told us it was a 7 year product up front, then at least we don't expect to be taken care of after year 7 when a failure occurs and we can make decisions based upon that fact.

 

[WBrim]

That is disappointing that a top tier company like that doesn’t seem to be interested in standing behind every product of theirs… sounds like it’s hit and miss for warranty… Thats a hefty price tag to have only partial peace of mind it’s covered…

 

[IrkedCitizen]

How old is this spotting scope in question?

 

[JohnJohnson]

I know some people make fun of Vortex's warranty, mainly because of some of their lower priced lines of scopes needing to use it too often, but it's reassuring. I went away from Vortex for years because they didn't really make what suited my needs at the time but now that I'm moving back to it (LHT scope), it's nice to not have to worry. I'm sorry this happened to you and it makes me glad I sold off my Victory SF binos and kept my Swaros.

 

[Whiteyfisk]

Owning an insurance agency and I can tell you this is not really true. Insurance is the most regulated business in the country and it's not even close. Those contracts are very straight forward because of the hundreds of billions dollars they end having to pay out over wording that is slightly ambiguous and almost always goes in favor of the customer. Ask State Farm about flood and Katrina. That being said not saying some adjustors don't do a bad job and some stuff gets declined that should not be, but after arbitration that almost always get it right and when they don't bad faith nets the customer triple mostly.

As far as adjustors not getting back to you, thats a crappy employee and that needs to go, not a bad company. None of us would ever run a business that operates on a few % points of margin

If you buy Swaro, Leica, etc you are still buying a Zeiss product, that's their glass in all Swaro Optics.

Paul

No offense, but you sound exactly like an insurance company.... Dont piss down oir backs and tell us its raining.

 

[Happy Antelope]

No offense, but you sound exactly like an insurance company.... Dont piss down oir backs and tell us its raining.

Imagine a world without it.

 

[JohnJohnson]

Imagine a world without it.

I think that may be a happier thought for more people than you think, depending on the type of insurance.

 

[ndlawrence]

Imagine a world without it.

I frequently do - a much better place.

 

[Trial153]

The comparisons I see on here on insane

Comparing 100 retail multi tool, that if it happens to break 20 years from now can be replaced with 25 dollar production cost new model, is totally apples to oranges compared to keeping the tooling and machining’s needed to to produce a 20 year old optic. As well as expecting after 20 years of use a new or prorated replacement.

 

[Mojave]

Zeiss has a pair of my 10x56 victory binos. They need a lot of love. I expect the price to be near $800.

 

[Happy Antelope]

I frequently do - a much better place.

So you don't buy auto insurance, health or home insurance? It's actually impossible to run a good business without knowing the cost of your risk. Thats all insurance does, put a known fixed cost on your unknown risk so you can operate your business plan. Kind of impossible to run a business when you don't know what anything is going to cost. Can't imagine spending every day of my life knowing if financial disaster is one step away for myself or someone else, it's easier just to write a small check and go on with my day. If I hurt somebody on an accident I'd like to know they're going to be compensated if I don't have enough money to pay for the damages I caused. I guess that's called responsibility and carrying about other people. Another question if you don't buy insurance why think about it? In case facts matter your insurance P&C company operates on about a 2 to 4% net profit margin usally, health ins around 7%, Apple's pretty close to 30%. In 30 years I've only seen one claim not paid properly accorsing to the contract. Helped that guy file a bad faith claim, and he made a fortune. More often than not I see insurance companies pay out where they shouldn't. Most of the cost of insurance is fraud about 80 billion dollars a year worth, that's why it costs so much not because the insurance company's screwing you. The industry as a whole lost money on property insurance over 20 years. Auto insurance is a loser in half 1/2 the States in the nation right now. Medical malpractice was such a loser that a lot of States you couldn't buy a policy through anybody but the state insurance fund. Florida wind insurance was not existent for years, or very limited capacity and could only be bought through the state because it was such a loser. Anyway good discussion, insurance has a lot to do with being successful in this world. Use it to your advantage, fund the mis-priced policy or underwriting criteria and capatalize on it. The insurance industry as a whole had about 27 billion dollars in losses last year. That's to the advantage of us the consumers.

 

[tron8]

Won't be seeing my business

 

[JohnJohnson]

So you don't buy auto insurance, health or home insurance? Can't imagine spending every day of my life knowing if financial disaster is one step away for myself or someone else

Medical debt is the leading cause of bankruptcy in the US and insurers are one of the entities gouging the eyes out of the American people when it comes to healthcare. Bad example.