Your Second Layer?

[woods89]

That’s prezactly what Ryan and I were talking about. Take that, make it out if Polartec Alpha Direct… money.

Yeah, if you think about it, a guy like me at 5' 8" 165 lbs puts on a layer, then puts on a 26" Kifaru, and now you have probably a good 30% of that layer smashed under that pack. Not only is that insulation not doing me any good, it's causing me problems as it's adding to detrimental perspiration.

I think this modification is a good step, but my wish list garment would be.....

-It needs a good hood.
-Exterior fabric like my BD Alpine Start.
-Mesh vent in the back.
-Alpha Direct in the sleeves, sides, and front. Insulation in the sides and front needs to stop just above the pack belt, with the face fabric extending down to typical height.
-Full zip for venting.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I proposed this idea to a few companies at the expo. One was very interested.


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[Dobermann]

I proposed this idea to a few companies at the expo. One was very interested.


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Please tell us it wasn't Kraptek.

That dead snake thing they have going on is so six years ago ...

 

[Ryan Avery]

Please tell us it wasn't Kraptek.

That dead snake thing they have going on is so six years ago ...

It was not, but I do love the Altitude camo.


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[woods89]

I proposed this idea to a few companies at the expo. One was very interested.


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Hopefully they make it happen. My natural pessimism says most people might not look at a jacket with a big hole in the back and see it as something comfortable, but it definitely needs to be done.

I think if someone has some skills or knows a good seamstress, one way to get there would be to buy one of the excellent windshirts available and have some Alpha Direct panels sewn in the inside. I do think mesh in the back is a good idea, and in my opinion that vent needs to be just a bit bigger than the backpack to let just a little cool air circulate. I sweat a lot, though, so maybe for most a breathable windshirt fabric would be sufficient under the pack.

 

[woods89]

View attachment 380636View attachment 380637Here's a bit of an experiment. I'm tired of having to be really cold at times while hiking to keep my back from sweating like crazy. This is a Columbia lightweight fleece I bought a few years ago from STP. It has breathable panels on the shoulders already, but I had my wife sew a mesh panel in the back that's just a bit wider than my widest backpack.

We probably won't have a lot of cold weather here anymore but I'm hopefully going to test it a bit before spring. I'll probably bring a vest to replace the lost area when static. Maybe I ruined a good fleece, or maybe it's nirvana. I'll report back.

I've thought for awhile that something like this should be available commercially.

It was cold here this morning ( for MO, anyway). Low teens, 10-15 mph north wind. I figured it was my last chance to give this some use this spring, so I did a 3 mile loop this morning.

I walked away from the vehicle with a Kuiu Peleton 97 base, this fleece, and a BD Alpine Start windshirt. In retrospect I should have probably left the windshirt off and just power hiked for a bit to warm up. I found on the steep uphills I would get a little perspiration , although not more than my base could get rid of in 10 min or so. About half way through I took off the windshirt, which made it very difficult to overwhelm the system on the uphills. I got back to the vehicle with very minimal dampness on my back, and I could have thrown on a puffy and been dry within minutes. This was hiking fairly briskly on trail in fairly broken terrain.

Most people would probably benefit from a lightweight solid nylon back, rather than mesh. Without the windshirt on it can feel like opening a window in a blizzard when the breeze hits. For someone who overheats easily like me this is not an issue.

This combo is going to be too warm for me above 20* F. I would like to try it with a less warm baselayer ( the Peleton 97 is very warm for the weight) as I think that would push the useful temps up. Above 20* I do fine with the 97 and a windshirt anyway. I think this is going to be quite useful for activity in the teens and single digits, though. I also would like to try it in warmer temps with just a synthetic short sleeve under.

One benefit I see is that the extra layer on my arms helped keep my hands warm much easier, since I wasn't using my arms and head as a radiator to get rid of excess heat.

Some form of this does need to be made commercially. Maybe it doesn't apply for September archery but for late season hunting, where you are either wearing a pack or sitting with insulation on, it needs to be done. I still think an ideal garment would be a windshirt with light Polartec Alpha Direct in the sleeves, sides and front.

 

[mtwarden]

Towards the end of the season I grabbed a SitkaArrowhead (division of Sitka-their tactical line) Alpha Direct mid-layer hoody. This was purchased based on the very good experience I had with Sitka's Active hoody (also Polartec Alpha Direct)- which sans sleeves is only good for earlier season stuff.

I really like my Sitka Core Heavyweight hoody, but this jacket simply outperforms it on the move.

It's highly breathable, which means if it's windy- I have to add a windshirt over it.

It's the best active layer I've owned to date and I've owned a lot of them

I've now got close to another 200 miles on this jacket and am still thoroughly impressed. One day hiking I encountered some light rain and no hardshell or windshirt (it was a short hike, what can I say ). Anyways the outer fabric did a pretty damn good job of keeping moisture out, better than I would have thought. I few spots it wetted out, but the rain quit and my heat dried those spots out quickly. Again a light rain.

The outer fabric of the MDWi is very breathable, but still blocks light wind- where a 100% Alpha Direct garment wouldn't. They did a pretty good job in balancing breathability, but still providing light wind/precip protection (along with protecting the Direct insulation from snags, etc).

Good enough, I just ordered the vest

 

[Kostrize]

Anybody have experience with the new Arc’teryx Proton FL yet? Looked like another good option similar to the Sitka MDWi. Arcteryx stuff always reviews well, if it can be had for 90 less than the Sitka that might be the best Alpha Direct type option out there at the moment

 

[txtransplant]

Some of y’all have mentioned a Gulch Gear hoody with Polartec Alpha coming down the pipe. Any other details on that?

Enlighten Equipment Torrid Jacket. This is best piece of clothing gear I’ve ever bought. During early season I just have a light base layer and this jacket. Then starting in October I use it as my mid layer and end up wearing it most of the day because it’s plenty warm down to like 30 degrees. With a light base layer, this torrid jacket, and a stone glacier puffy on top I’ve never been cold down to 0 degrees.


View attachment 372981

@huntnful how does this piece handle sweat from inside and precip from outside?

@mtwarden any opinion or experience on this piece? I’m wondering if this can take the place of the Timmermade Alpha hoody + Black Diamond windshirt… Thoughts?

Men's Torrid Jacket Custom

Three season insulated jacket - custom color - the Torrid APEX Jacket

enlightenedequipment.com

 

[mtwarden]

I have a Torrid- great warmer weather insulating piece, would not make a great active insulation piece. Apex breathes OK, but not like Polartec Alpha or Alpha Direct. Also they inner/outer fabrics on the Torrid were chosen to best fit the role of an insulating piece (not moving).

I think it would make a great early season "puffy". I use mine on summer trips, but also later Spring and early Fall.

 

[txtransplant]

Back to the drawing board… or at least back to the original Timmermade / Black Diamond plan. I’m just afraid of the naked alpha getting torn too easily…

 

[woods89]

Back to the drawing board… or at least back to the original Timmermade / Black Diamond plan. I’m just afraid of the naked alpha getting torn too easily…

I've been thinking about the RAB Alpha Flash with a big hole in the back.........

 

[Kotaman]

Here’s what I’ve settled on for active cold weather hunts: Merino tee, Sitka LS, FL Sawtooth. Add a puffy when I stop. If it’s really cold, windy and or wet, I’ll replace Sawtooth with Sitka Timberline as a mid layer.

 

[sneaky]

Some of y’all have mentioned a Gulch Gear hoody with Polartec Alpha coming down the pipe. Any other details on that?


@huntnful how does this piece handle sweat from inside and precip from outside?

@mtwarden any opinion or experience on this piece? I’m wondering if this can take the place of the Timmermade Alpha hoody + Black Diamond windshirt… Thoughts?

Men's Torrid Jacket Custom

Three season insulated jacket - custom color - the Torrid APEX Jacket

enlightenedequipment.com

Gulch Gear has photos of their hoody on their Instagram page. Looks like naked alpha direct

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[Bump79]

I’m a big sweater.. Ive tried a few different fleece layers and have settled on the peloton 200. Very lightweight - my large weighs 10.5 ounces (lighter than kuiu’s specs). Dries incredibly fast - basically dry when I pull it out of the washer after the spin cycle. Very simple design - doesn’t have features or pockets I don’t need or wouldn’t use. Seems to be a great balance of warmth and breathability to cover a very wide range of temperatures. My simplest piece but gets the most use.


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I love my 200 as well. I've worn it heavily for like 7 years.

 

[txtransplant]

For anyone looking for the Gulch Gear link: https://www.instagram.com/p/Ca2h20LJyK0/

Looks like 186 g/m2 Polartec Alpha on the inside, Toray Dot Air on the outside. They say available in September 2022.

Looks like KUIU just released a Training Tech Wind Jacket in their new "Training Tech" line, but they made the terrible decision to offer this piece only in the black / grey color block layout, instead of all black like literally every other piece in that line. [Facepalm] I would have tried this piece, but I'm not at all interested in this color scheme.

 

[huntnful]

Some of y’all have mentioned a Gulch Gear hoody with Polartec Alpha coming down the pipe. Any other details on that?


@huntnful how does this piece handle sweat from inside and precip from outside?

@mtwarden any opinion or experience on this piece? I’m wondering if this can take the place of the Timmermade Alpha hoody + Black Diamond windshirt… Thoughts?

Men's Torrid Jacket Custom

Three season insulated jacket - custom color - the Torrid APEX Jacket

enlightenedequipment.com

It does fine, but it's not meant for either. I've done some pretty good hikes in cold temps with it on, where I was sweating pretty good. I dries out extremely fast. And also does a decent job repelling rain and snow long enough for you to get a real rain layer situated.

 

[jd1006]

I ordered the new Proton FL in Conifer. Couldn’t resist with the specs…I hope the outerfabric is as breathable as they are touting.

 

[jd1006]

The Proton FL at first look has an outer that is quieter than the Alpine Start and the Kelvin Active Hoody. The insulation is basically polartec alpha direct. The hoody is also insulated. Just standing still with it on a tshirt, I could feel the insulation holding heat. The face fabric doesn’t feel all that durable, but I haven’t done anything in the field…it’s supposed to be pretty durable. It packs down very small.

 

[7718Sallee]

The Proton FL at first look has an outer that is quieter than the Alpine Start and the Kelvin Active Hoody. The insulation is basically polartec alpha direct. The hoody is also insulated. Just standing still with it on a tshirt, I could feel the insulation holding heat. The face fabric doesn’t feel all that durable, but I haven’t done anything in the field…it’s supposed to be pretty durable. It packs down very small.

Let us know how it breathes when sweating? durability of outer fabric? and also how wind resistant it is.