Your opinion on spine aligning arrows

[Beendare]

In your experience, are the "spine aligned" arrows not actually spine aligned? I've read on different forums that spine aligned arrows are often/usually not actually aligned so I'm trying to figure out if spending the $ on "spine aligned" arrows is worth it or not

Spine align is a waste of time, IMO

Best practice is to number your arrows and log your groups at longer range.

If you have an arrow that is consistently not grouping, then twist the nok or reflect if necessary.

Now, you have to be able to shoot well enough to determine if its actually the arrow.....

 

[Bump79]

Spine align is a waste of time, IMO

Best practice is to number your arrows and log your groups at longer range.

If you have an arrow that is consistently not grouping, then twist the nok or reflect if necessary.

Now, you have to be able to shoot well enough to determine if its actually the arrow.....

Seconded. I've done this multiple times now and ended up selling my spine tester. I noticed zero gain in accuracy for quite a bit of time.

If you don't have a super long draw 30"+ then you're better off just buying two .003" dozen arrows, numbering them and culling those that don't fly after a twist or two of the nock. You'll probably only cull a few anyway.

There's so many gimmicks in archery. The reality is you're the problem 95% of the time..

 

[Terrapin]

I think it was a bigger deal back when I designed the spine tester twenty years ago. Arrows back then had huge swings in spine around the diameter. Couple this with large fixed blade broadheads, and cams with significant nock travel and spine indexing paid large dividends.

Now days with far better cam designs & significantly better arrows it doesn’t seem to be as big of a deal.

I haven’t been shooting competitively for a couple years (rotator cuff), so take it with a grain of salt, but I think indexing nocks on completed arrows using a shooting machine resulted in the best outcome.


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[Billy Goat]

In your experience, are the "spine aligned" arrows not actually spine aligned? I've read on different forums that spine aligned arrows are often/usually not actually aligned so I'm trying to figure out if spending the $ on "spine aligned" arrows is worth it or not

For what I remember, the marks were generally in relation to the break in spine. Just that I didn't always find that to be what dictated where the nock would want to be positioned for the arrow to always react the same.

 

[whitetailhunter1]

Spine align is a waste of time, IMO

Best practice is to number your arrows and log your groups at longer range.

If you have an arrow that is consistently not grouping, then twist the nok or reflect if necessary.

Now, you have to be able to shoot well enough to determine if its actually the arrow.....

Is nock tuning done with a bare shaft? I'm assuming if you twist the nock and find a better nock location one would then want to refletch appropriately?

 

[whitetailhunter1]

Seconded. I've done this multiple times now and ended up selling my spine tester. I noticed zero gain in accuracy for quite a bit of time.

If you don't have a super long draw 30"+ then you're better off just buying two .003" dozen arrows, numbering them and culling those that don't fly after a twist or two of the nock. You'll probably only cull a few anyway.

There's so many gimmicks in archery. The reality is you're the problem 95% of the time..

I'm 100% sure I'm the majority of the problem . Just wanting to understand what are the main things to consider and what are the minor things.

 

[Tilzbow]

Is nock tuning done with a bare shaft? I'm assuming if you twist the nock and find a better nock location one would then want to refletch appropriately?

Nock tune with a broadhead. Use the same color for all fletch. Use a nock with an index. Mark the top vane with a marker for three fletch. I mark the “cock” vane with an arrow pointing up in the top center of the vane. With that little make and an index nock it’s easy to nock the arrow correctly. Alternatively fletch with four fletch then vane orientation doesn’t matter as far as clearance but could mess the tune if you nock the arrow different so for four fletch I also mark a vane with a marker to indicate the “cock”. I’ve been using the same color fletch for at least 30 years and it’s also much easier to tell if your arrow flight is good since you don’t have that one different color of vane that makes a spinning arrow look like it’s wobbling.

 

[Billy Goat]

Is nock tuning done with a bare shaft? I'm assuming if you twist the nock and find a better nock location one would then want to refletch appropriately?

I use to nock tune all my bareshafts, then fletch.

I think that mostly worked.


I just fletch everything and then nock tune now.
Fletching after is introducing something else, might as well adjust everything for how you will shoot them.

 

[peterk123]

I paper tune at 6 feet and 9 feet. Then I set my sights. I will also walk back tune, which helps me get the sights just right. Then I see how my broadhead shoots, starting at 20 yards, then out to 40. I tweak the sights as needed to get the BH as close to my FP as possible. If everything was setup correctly in the beginning, I shouldn't have to move anything.

I'm far from an expert, my bow is primarily a hunting tool. I set it and forget it. So my method may be all wrong, but it appears to work. At the end of the day, if I can get my BH to cooperate with my FP, I'm happy. And, if the BH is flying good then I know my arrow build is good.

I don't bareshaft tune. I think you need perfect, repeatable form to do it. I'm just not that good. I found myself chasing paper tears when I tried it years ago. That's why I paper tune fetched. You still need good consistent form, but I find it a little more forgiving. I'd be curious to hear the thoughts of people here are really good with the bow if my process and assumptions are way off.

 

[dtrkyman]

I like to nock tune bare shafts, otherwise as stated number your arrows and keep track of fliers, if I get a bad arrow I put an X on each vane, then I rotate the nock and see if it starts to group.

Tim Gillingham has a good video on paper tuning each arrow, he brakes it down nicely!


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[roosiebull]

I use to nock tune all my bareshafts, then fletch.

I think that mostly worked.


I just fletch everything and then nock tune now.
Fletching after is introducing something else, might as well adjust everything for how you will shoot them.

I think that’s the best way. As of present, I have nock tuned bare shafts, make a reference mark on the nock and shaft, then fletch, but I think the best time to nock tune is after fletch, and that’s what I’m going to start doing… it also gives you less options which means less time, ocd trickery… I’m not very OCD but things like nock tuning get me, it’s not fun and I have a short attention span with things I don’t like doing

I have started cheating the system and shooting very spine consistent shafts (like rampage or altras, day 6, etc) the axis is my favorite shaft made, but I got sick of them nock tuning, they aren’t bad but back to that attention span thing… I started caring a lot more when I started shooting a recurve a lot, I really hate nock tuning them, so I learned there were very consistent shafts that were more like verifying rather than tuning

I think fletch first is a good option, and will save me some BS, And then sort as necessary. I do need all of my arrows dialed though, so when I am not shooting great, I can’t blame any equipment so I can stop sucking instead of tinkering in denial

 

[Beendare]

I use to nock tune all my bareshafts, then fletch.

I think that mostly worked.


I just fletch everything and then nock tune now.
Fletching after is introducing something else, might as well adjust everything for how you will shoot them.

Yeah, agreed. It's all about skipping unnecessary steps. Most arrows shoot better than the shooter.

If you happen to be one of the top 3% shooters- I no longer am- then number the fletch and log the groups. Most guys won't be able to detect a flyer....but the top shooters can.

Easy to twist the nok 90 deg and refletch.

EDIT; Back in the day when I WAS a pretty good shooter and the spine consistency was not as good as it is now....its was easy to pick out the numbered arrows that didn't group. In fact, most would be outside of the group in the same general location- like low left of the group for me [a lefty]

 

[chasewild]

Yeah, agreed. It's all about skipping unnecessary steps. Most arrows shoot better than the shooter.

If you happen to be one of the top 3% shooters- I no longer am- then number the fletch and log the groups. Most guys won't be able to detect a flyer....but the top shooters can.

Easy to twist the nok 90 deg and refletch.

Every time I read one of these threads, I’m like man I really wish I could shoot well enough to see a difference between arrows.


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[whitetailhunter1]

I think that’s the best way. As of present, I have nock tuned bare shafts, make a reference mark on the nock and shaft, then fletch, but I think the best time to nock tune is after fletch, and that’s what I’m going to start doing… it also gives you less options which means less time, ocd trickery… I’m not very OCD but things like nock tuning get me, it’s not fun and I have a short attention span with things I don’t like doing

I have started cheating the system and shooting very spine consistent shafts (like rampage or altras, day 6, etc) the axis is my favorite shaft made, but I got sick of them nock tuning, they aren’t bad but back to that attention span thing… I started caring a lot more when I started shooting a recurve a lot, I really hate nock tuning them, so I learned there were very consistent shafts that were more like verifying rather than tuning

I think fletch first is a good option, and will save me some BS, And then sort as necessary. I do need all of my arrows dialed though, so when I am not shooting great, I can’t blame any equipment so I can stop sucking instead of tinkering in denial

So I just nock tuned the arrows I'm shooting (Bloodsport Hunter .004 straightness). Two were hitting right in the middle and two were hitting to the right. Nock tuning brought the two hitting right to group much better with the other two. As I don't have much experience with different arrows, would you say it's "normal" to need nock tuning regardless of the arrow brand and model? I guess I'm just curious if what I experienced was a normal part of arrows and archery or if it's more so from these specific arrows? Just trying to learn.

 

[10ringer]

So I just nock tuned the arrows I'm shooting (Bloodsport Hunter .004 straightness). Two were hitting right in the middle and two were hitting to the right. Nock tuning brought the two hitting right to group much better with the other two. As I don't have much experience with different arrows, would you say it's "normal" to need nock tuning regardless of the arrow brand and model? I guess I'm just curious if what I experienced was a normal part of arrows and archery or if it's more so from these specific arrows? Just trying to learn.

Even with top tier arrows, nock tuning is part of the process. I have built nearly every single arrow made and it seems once you cross over $200 per dozen, you only have one or two stubborn arrows versus 6 or more on cheaper arrows.
Where top-tier arrows really pay off is when a Broadhead is introduced. They have more consistent dynamic spine and stabilize rapidly giving more repeatable impacts.

That being said, it’s great you are learning to tune on a mid tier arrows. You will be a better archer in the long run for it.


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[ChrisA]

I went OCD this summer in preparation for an elk hunt. Having never built arrows before, I built two dozen arrows on Axis 5mm .003 300 spine shafts. Then built another dozen but nock tuned bareshafts before fletching. I had 2 or 3 that required a quarter nock turn, 1 that required half a nock turn, and 1 cull.

It was a great learning experience, my shooting and tuning improved immensely, and I was able to get Exodus swept, Cutthroat, field points, and bareshafts to hit together out to 40yds. I even bareshafted to 50 yds with good results and field points and broadheads hit together at 65yds which is as far as my sight allows.

 

[whitetailhunter1]

Even with top tier arrows, nock tuning is part of the process. I have built nearly every single arrow made and it seems once you cross over $200 per dozen, you only have one or two stubborn arrows versus 6 or more on cheaper arrows.
Where top-tier arrows really pay off is when a Broadhead is introduced. They have more consistent dynamic spine and stabilize rapidly giving more repeatable impacts.

That being said, it’s great you are learning to tune on a mid tier arrows. You will be a better archer in the long run for it.


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Great thank you I really appreciate your insight! So in your experience there's nothing wrong with continuing to use these Bloodsports? I can get them for around $42/dozen with Blazer vanes and they seem to shoot pretty well, and while I only have two deer harvests so far in my limited hunting, both kills resulted in broken arrows. So unless there is a specific reason to spend more on arrows, I'd like to avoid throwing away extra $ on broken arrows. As of now, I'm limiting shots to 20 yards (might go out to 30 if a great opportunity presented itself), using mechanical broadheads (G5 mega/dead meats) so assuming I can get the majority of a dozen to fly right, any significant benefit in your experience to dropping more coin?

 

[whitetailhunter1]

I went OCD this summer in preparation for an elk hunt. Having never built arrows before, I built two dozen arrows on Axis 5mm .003 300 spine shafts. Then built another dozen but nock tuned bareshafts before fletching. I had 2 or 3 that required a quarter nock turn, 1 that required half a nock turn, and 1 cull.

It was a great learning experience, my shooting and tuning improved immensely, and I was able to get Exodus swept, Cutthroat, field points, and bareshafts to hit together out to 40yds. I even bareshafted to 50 yds with good results and field points and broadheads hit together at 65yds which is as far as my sight allows.

Interesting and thanks for sharing your experience. Do you think the grouping you were able to achieve was more of a result of the quality of the Axis arrows or more because you spent the time to nock tune the bare shafts or a little of both?

 

[10ringer]

Great thank you I really appreciate your insight! So in your experience there's nothing wrong with continuing to use these Bloodsports? I can get them for around $42/dozen with Blazer vanes and they seem to shoot pretty well, and while I only have two deer harvests so far in my limited hunting, both kills resulted in broken arrows. So unless there is a specific reason to spend more on arrows, I'd like to avoid throwing away extra $ on broken arrows. As of now, I'm limiting shots to 20 yards (might go out to 30 if a great opportunity presented itself), using mechanical broadheads (G5 mega/dead meats) so assuming I can get the majority of a dozen to fly right, any significant benefit in your experience to dropping more coin?

For your application, you are golden. Keep using what works!
I hate to put a distance or situation on when better arrows come in to-play. At some point as you push your abilities as an archer, you will know the equipment is due for an upgrade.


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[ChrisA]

Interesting and thanks for sharing your experience. Do you think the grouping you were able to achieve was more of a result of the quality of the Axis arrows or more because you spent the time to nock tune the bare shafts or a little of both?

There were 6 arrows that grouped well in bareshaft testing, I didn't mess with those nocks but it would've been interesting to see if turning the nock would've caused them to hit outside the group. I've never tried an arrow sold with less than .003 straightness but would expect a higher percentage of .001 match grade arrows to hit in the group without turning nocks; pure speculation though.

That said, the one arrow that was a cull was an obvious outlier; it wouldn't hit in the group no matter what and I recall it was always high right about 3-4" at 25 yards and it was shot randomly about 40 times. I really have no data to base this opinion on but I would think the number of arrows culled or needing nocks turned would be relative to the grade of the arrows.

I did this nock tuning in a somewhat double blind fashion with three arrows in each round and had the arrows numbered. Each arrow was shot at least three times, if it hit in the group it got fletched, if it didn't I'd turn the nock 1/4 turn and throw it back into the untested pile until only the cull was left.

Hope this helps. I like the idea of fletching first then nock tuning but I run three fletch and a different color cock vane. Ultimately, I probably can't shoot the difference but am really glad I took the time doing it as I did and am glad I didn't have the culled arrow spun up with a broadhead in my quiver.

Added to clarify: each bareshaft was shot at least 3 times regardless of nock orientation. If an arrow hit in the group three times it was fletched, if not, the nock was turned and it got three more chances to hit in the group, rinse and repeat if it still didn't.