Wyoming What Are You Doing?

[DeadSound]

We've been having a TON of wounded animals the last couple years. Mainly eastern and midwest hunters (I'm not saying all) come out, never shot in the wind, never shot angles and most importantly never practice at distance. Its a problem. I put on a couple shooting clinics for Outfitters around here for their hunters. We'd like to see a resident/non-resident proficiency test for hunting in Wyoming in the future. I know that is going to make some people mad but we have to do something.

 

[Touchdown88]

I know that I'm gonna get burned but I like the technology restriction Utah put on some general units.

When you compare the distances we killed animals at 30 years ago, every weapon system has at least doubled their effective range. 100 yard archery kills. 400 yard muzzleloader kills. 1000+ yard rifle kills.

At some point we need to limit ourselves, or the government will do it in the most absurd way possible.

 

[Lionheart]

It always amazes me how supposedly sane people look to government to regulate behavior…and are quick to beg for non hunters to decide who can hunt what, where and how. If Wyoming doesn’t want eastern hunters then close the state to nonresidents. Just don’t expect to hunt or carry a weapon east of the Mississippi.

 

[Lionheart]

We've been having a TON of wounded animals the last couple years. Mainly eastern and midwest hunters (I'm not saying all) come out, never shot in the wind, never shot angles and most importantly never practice at distance. Its a problem. I put on a couple shooting clinics for Outfitters around here for their hunters. We'd like to see a resident/non-resident proficiency test for hunting in Wyoming in the future. I know that is going to make some people mad but we have to do something.

Who is we? And I’m an eastern hunter. I have hunted all over the country and a few continents, Some of the worst shots and cheapest guns I have seen were good ol boy western ranchers. Unless you have hard evidence and stats to back up your claims about eastern hunter's wounding game then all you are doing is spreading rumors. Do I agree some city boys from NJ and Michigan can’t shoot for shit?
Yep. But I have seen slob hunters from all states. Wyoming included.
I would also guess that a lot of that game is wounded by archery hunters, perhaps more than rifle hunters.
Outfitters can fix a lot of these problems by simply requiring their hunters to prove their prowess at distance and discussing ethical limits before the hunt.
And simply saying no to shots that are marginal due to distance, wind, etc.
But giving government more power? More restrictions, more regulation?
What a terrible idea.

 

[DeadSound]

Who is we? And I’m an eastern hunter. I have hunted all over the country and a few continents, Some of the worst shots and cheapest guns I have seen were good ol boy western ranchers. Unless you have hard evidence and stats to back up your claims about eastern hunter's wounding game then all you are doing is spreading rumors. Do I agree some city boys from NJ and Michigan can’t shoot for shit?
Yep. But I have seen slob hunters from all states. Wyoming included.
I would also guess that a lot of that game is wounded by archery hunters, perhaps more than rifle hunters.
Outfitters can fix a lot of these problems by simply requiring their hunters to prove their prowess at distance and discussing ethical limits before the hunt.
And simply saying no to shots that are marginal due to distance, wind, etc.
But giving government more power? More restrictions, more regulation?
What a terrible idea.

Yeah I didn't say it was ALL eastern hunters, don't be so hurt. For data, start by looking at hit percentages at NRL Hunter matches in the eastern US vs western matches, you'll see lower percentages, I have a spreadsheet I could send you. Then, find any county road in Wyoming during hunting season and you'll see Wisconsin & Minnesota plates. Watch them for ten minutes and you'll see them shoot at a one year old mule deer 17 times until they wound it. Also its, WE, as in the citizens and sportsman of Wyoming, the people who have been here for generations and dont just use this place as a vacation-hunt destination/outhouse.

 

[Blowdowner]

I'd be ok with a 2k limit. Anything else would be too un-american. We need to fix other things that are making us less intelligent and maintain freedom.

 

[Lionheart]

Yeah I didn't say it was ALL eastern hunters, don't be so hurt. For data, start by looking at hit percentages at NRL Hunter matches in the eastern US vs western matches, you'll see lower percentages, I have a spreadsheet I could send you. Then, find any county road in Wyoming during hunting season and you'll see Wisconsin & Minnesota plates. Watch them for ten minutes and you'll see them shoot at a one year old mule deer 17 times until they wound it. Also its, WE, as in the citizens and sportsman of Wyoming, the people who have been here for generations and dont just use this place as a vacation-hunt destination/outhouse.

I get it. I have seen more of the upper Midwest hunters you describe than good ol southern hunters. Seems to be really about hunters from urban backgrounds who didn’t grow up shooting/outdoors like some of us southern, rural hunters. Particularly in Kansas I would see the Michigan guys hunting in large groups, pushing deer like a pheasant hunt…taking pot shots at running deer.
Pisses me off too. I guess I didn’t like being lumped in that category. My best friend Roy passed last year and I spent enough time at his ranch in Wyoming over the years to understand the local’s disgust with bozos from Wisconsin/Michigan spraying and praying. But I still don’t think government regulation is the answer…

 

[MallardSX2]

I blame a lot of it on guys feeling the pressure to take the shot because they know that they will likely not get a tag for another 10 years or more. Its a real thing. "It was 800 yards but it was now or never being the last day of my hunt."

I am NOT making excused for poor ethic at all. Most long range shots at animals are simply hail mary shots out of pure greed with 0 care to make a clean kill. Most guys (who are good shots at long range) will admit that a shot over 400 yards can be very challenging in hunting conditions, especially in a crosswind.

Youtube dip$hits have also made it appear that they are consistently killing animals at 800 yards without showing the three animals they wounded and never found. These people are NOT helping the situation.

I really hate seeing wounded animals but even if we limit weapons and sights, people are still going to be flinging lead in a futile attempt for that hero Instagram pose.....

It really just boils down to ethics (or the lack thereof in some).

 

[Hoosker Doo]

@MallardSX2 kind of beat me to it, but limiting technology in units may help lower the overall success rate, but your still going to have the same hunters who are overconfident and and don't even know how much skill they lack that will fling lead with open sights at 200-300 yards with no hesitation. A lot of people want to impose ethics on others, but "I can do it, because I'm that good".

What I find amusing about the article is that wounding isn't really even part of the discussion. It's mainly jealousy that's driving the discussion. "Someon shot my buck, before I could from 400 yards behind me." Hunters are about the most jealous group of people out there. And even though someone might practice daily and spend thousands of rounds to be proficient at 800 yards (not me), and they shoot the buck I was hoping to shoot at 300-400 yards, the reaction is "Hey, that's not fair! We need to put a stop to this so no one kills MY buck anymore."

 

[Wprinkle]

@MallardSX2 kind of beat me to it, but limiting technology in units may help lower the overall success rate, but your still going to have the same hunters who are overconfident and and don't even know how much skill they lack that will fling lead with open sights at 200-300 yards with no hesitation. A lot of people want to impose ethics on others, but "I can do it, because I'm that good".

What I find amusing about the article is that wounding isn't really even part of the discussion. It's mainly jealousy that's driving the discussion. "Someon shot my buck, before I could from 400 yards behind me." Hunters are about the most jealous group of people out there. And even though someone might practice daily and spend thousands of rounds to be proficient at 800 yards (not me), and they shoot the buck I was hoping to shoot at 300-400 yards, the reaction is "Hey, that's not fair! We need to put a stop to this so no one kills MY buck anymore."

I agree with the technology comment. If they really want to fix issues ban it. Just look how things have changed since 2013. Hunting apps hurt big game hunting more than anything. Go back to having to land nav at night, off trail, and about 95% of hunters will have to stick to the trails, opening up pockets for game to find sanctuary in. Take away rangefinders. I don't know about anyone else but trying to determine 600 yards vs 800 yards in broken terrain under pressure is a crap shoot for me without a rangefinder.

 

[MallardSX2]

I agree with the technology comment. If they really want to fix issues ban it. Just look how things have changed since 2013. Hunting apps hurt big game hunting more than anything. Go back to having to land nav at night, off trail, and about 95% of hunters will have to stick to the trails, opening up pockets for game to find sanctuary in. Take away rangefinders. I don't know about anyone else but trying to determine 600 yards vs 800 yards in broken terrain under pressure is a crap shoot for me without a rangefinder.

A lot of interesting data will come out of Utah in the next few years for use. They have implemented some test areas as everyone already knows. Applications plummeted in those areas showing that people aren't willing to put in the extra effort.

I'm not all about banning stuff to be honest. I just wish there was a way to increase the big game herds in the west so we didn't even have to have this discussion. Maybe we will see the numbers grow again in the next few years.

 

[MallardSX2]

I agree with the technology comment. If they really want to fix issues ban it. Just look how things have changed since 2013. Hunting apps hurt big game hunting more than anything. Go back to having to land nav at night, off trail, and about 95% of hunters will have to stick to the trails, opening up pockets for game to find sanctuary in. Take away rangefinders. I don't know about anyone else but trying to determine 600 yards vs 800 yards in broken terrain under pressure is a crap shoot for me without a rangefinder.

In Nebraska, I walked up to a guy who had taken a shot at a deer right before I got to a glassing ridge. He had came in from a different direction and beat me to that glassing point which was fine with me.

I asked him if that was him that shot and he said it was a nice 18" wide 8 pointer and he was confident he had missed and said he though maybe his scope was off. I asked him where the deer was at and he said "Over there on that hill." I said "Oh, $hit, how far is that?" and he said that he didn't have a rangefinder and guessed it to be ~350 yards.

I got out my rangefinder and then told him it was 625.....I don't think he really believed me so I handed it to him.

I walked back to the truck and came back and I am pretty sure I killed that buck the next day on the last day of my hunt. He was nowhere to be seen. Probably at the range checking his gun.

He was a nice enough guy, He just severely misjudged the distance.

 

[CMP70306]

A lot of interesting data will come out of Utah in the next few years for use. They have implemented some test areas as everyone already knows. Applications plummeted in those areas showing that people aren't willing to put in the extra effort.

I'm not all about banning stuff to be honest. I just wish there was a way to increase the big game herds in the west so we didn't even have to have this discussion. Maybe we will see the numbers grow again in the next few years.

How are you so sure the lack of putting in the extra effort is the determining factor? For me personally if I’m traveling west to hunt it’s going to cost me several thousand dollars to just get to the hunting location with a tag in hand. Since I don’t have several thousand dollars to piss away on a walk in the woods I want to maximize my opportunity to be successful and places with heavy equipment restrictions would be at the bottom of the list for places to apply to.

I’ll make things harder on my self to limit my opportunities when it costs me $10 in gas to get to the hunting spot and if I don’t get anything there’s always next week or worst case the next season. I refuse to do so on what could be a once in a lifetime opportunity that costs several years worth of savings and points.

 

[MallardSX2]

How are you so sure the lack of putting in the extra effort is the determining factor?

Right.

 

[Wprinkle]

A lot of interesting data will come out of Utah in the next few years for use. They have implemented some test areas as everyone already knows. Applications plummeted in those areas showing that people aren't willing to put in the extra effort.

I'm not all about banning stuff to be honest. I just wish there was a way to increase the big game herds in the west so we didn't even have to have this discussion. Maybe we will see the numbers grow again in the next few years.

It will be interesting, again I am not "for" banning anything, but that is going to be the only way to fix it, other than lower tags and better management which we all isn't going to happen on a impactive scale. It is like the "open sights" only BS... I was with some guys that were developing a prototype and it is already to the point that if you can see it you can hit it. The prototypes (and shooters) were so good they were getting 8-10 inch groups at 580..

 

[tstowater]

How about personal responsibility? We don't need any more laws or rules. People need to take ethical and responsible shots. Don't take a shot that you haven't practiced and are comfortable taking. Period.

 

[Stinky Coyote]

What in the four fisted flying fack is going on here? Is one thread not enough?

Death by 1000 cuts appears to be the only solution lol. Wt absolute f

 

[Harvey_NW]

I'm not all about banning stuff to be honest. I just wish there was a way to increase the big game herds in the west so we didn't even have to have this discussion. Maybe we will see the numbers grow again in the next few years.

It will be interesting, again I am not "for" banning anything, but that is going to be the only way to fix it, other than lower tags and better management which we all isn't going to happen on a impactive scale.

I would bet addressing predator management in most areas of the West would have more of a positive impact than banning electronics.