Wyoming proposal to slash Non-resident hunters

[LostArra]

For me this is an elk issue and I'll adapt to any changes.

I would never make a trip to Wyoming for a deer even if the tag was $5.

I've killed antelope and I'm done with that too.The meat is great but what? 40 lbs? $600 and 24 hours of driving???

Buzz is right. Wyoming is just leveling the playing field for their residents with other western big game states. My question is who will go below 10% first because it's coming.

Hell, Chronic Worrying Disease is going to change point creep to point creepy when all the deer, elk and moose are zombies.

Wyoming has unlimited opportunity?

That’s news.

I think he was referring to Alaska

 

[Fatcamp]

Sure. Come on over. I guided hundreds of people from western states fishing the year I ran charters after college, and I happily took guys from work when I was in the military to my best spots. PM me for pictures of nonresidents holding Virginia citation game fish that are ten times the size of the biggest state records where those guys come from.

It seems like the only coherent argument I really hear is "Well, the other guys do it too, so I should be able to as well." I can't say that sounds like very good logic to follow in life in general. Also, what about the state with the best hunting on the continent and arguably in the world? Alaska gives out unlimited OTC tags to nonresidents for most species. Like I said originally, I think it's great that they limit "the big three" to residents or high dollar guides- I look forward to hunting sheep myself when I get AK residency, but I'll never look down on a guy from out of state trying to fill a Caribou tag as long as he's a responsible hunter.

Using others bad behavior to justify one's own is something my kids are broke from at a young age.

 

[OXN939]

Unlimited opportunity can’t go on forever

Completely agreed, except that there is nothing unlimited at all about NR licenses in WY. I think it's great that the vast majority go to residents, and would honestly be fine with them getting rid of NR moose and goats tags completely. I just know my money will go elsewhere if it becomes a rarity to have a decent chance at a worthwhile experience.

 

[HighUintas]

There's just too many people on the earth. That's the whole problem.

 

[BBob]

It seems like the only coherent argument I really hear is "Well, the other guys do it too, so I should be able to as well." I can't say that sounds like very good logic to follow in life in general.

I don't think it's monkey see monkey do. I get it, we in AZ got the pressure decades ago due to our trophy elk and mule deer. All of a sudden seemingly out of the blue non-res pressure started to really affect the draw. I believe a lot of it came from the outfitter boom at the time and bringing clients in. The AZ Strip and Kiabab archery hunts used to be over the counter and any of us could hunt it every year if we wanted. AZGFD asked us what we wanted and we went to the meetings and responded. They did what we asked as residents. I'll say it again, I don't blame any states residents for wanting to able to hunt at home.

 

[Buffinnut]

Wyoming has unlimited opportunity?

That’s news.

did you not see where I was responding to the guy talking about unlimited otc tags in Alaska?

 

[Weston]

I respect WY residents trying to get a similar cap to most other western states, as an AZ resident who got in on the points game in most western states about 10 years ago (when I was 20) I have mixed feelings obviously selfishly I hope it does not pass as a non resident, especially with points.....

that said, I would trade our stipulation in Arizona for 50% NR tags and 50% R tags in a heartbeat if all states followed the same guidelines..... keeping the NR tags priced much higher than the Resident tags, this would do two things... it would greatly benefit the game commissions by generating much higher income, it would allow serious hunters more opportunity across the board, alas at a higher cost and allow the not so serious hunters opportunity in their home state although less frequently to hunt at the current or even a reduced cost as the NR premium would offset the cost increases for a while.

Honestly, even being relatively young and fairly established in the point game I don’t play the point game for WY sheep and moose as the cost benefit analysis isn’t there for me, I still apply for WY sheep and Goat but not moose, but I don’t buy the point anymore as I don’t think I’ll ever catch up, I would like to see it restructured, although I’m a huge supporter of a PP/random system for large quantity tags I’m not for OIL tags at the 75/25 split, if they split it to 25/75 it’s something I would be able to stomach much easier.

Perhaps I’m on an island but I have literally slaved away at minimum wage jobs since I was a teenager (working at an archery shop in college) and am now a government employee in Az. I’m not made of money by any account, but hunting is my passion, and where I choose to spend my money, I budget every year for out of state draws, and even before I could afford to take the time off and pay for expensive hunts and tags I had the foresight to start building points knowing one day I would be rewarded and was hoping by the time I was 35 or 40 I would have enough points to go on at least one premium hunt a year every year.

 

[David Gough]

There is a big cry from some, that the federal government is going to transfer all federal land to the states (I don't believe it will ever happen). Then the states would own the land and the animals. Will the millions of non resident hunters that don't live in Montana, Utah, Colorado, Nevada, etc that can't hunt out of state anymore, help the tiny population of resident hunters from stopping this happen? Will they want to continue to pay taxes on bloated, corrupt, over regulating agencies like the BLM and Forest Circus that mismanage the land that feed, shelter, and sustain animals they can't hunt? What do you non residents think if you can't hunt out of state due to the cost and or restrictions? Would that in anyway change your mind about Federal Public land transfer?

States can't afford the cost of federal land management. No new news there.

The federal government can't afford anything either. That is more recent news in the grand scheme of this country, but no surprise.

I'm not advocating for the bill to pass, but I understand why it may. I'd love to hunt Wyoming as much as possible, but I'll hunt Wyoming less if the draw odds plummet.

 

[TXMT]

Just caught this from an anonymous source (as in I don't know who sent it to me, but it checks out legit). Robert Hanneman from Huntin' Fool also verified this information.

Wyoming is proposing to slash NR tags. This is what I received:


Here's the info:

SF0103 "Resident and nonresident hunting license issuance and fees," was filed last week and will be assigned to the Senate Travel, Recreation and Wildlife (TRW) Committee, tomorrow. The bill will need to make it out of the committee to be considered on the floor.

HERE is a link to the Bill.

The bill has two major changes:

1. It changes Wyoming's current limited quota tag allocation for all big game species (elk, deer, antelope, moose, sheep, goat, bison) to 90% resident hunters, and 10% nonresident hunters (90/10).
2. It increases prices for nonresident limited quota big game tags. For years, Wyoming's nonresident tags have been significantly underpriced compared to other states and this bill brings these prices up to market levels. These price increases result in $8 million/year of new revenue to the WY G&F Department.

Getting tough to be a NR hunter. Not sure what voice we have with Wyoming, but wanted to make sure you all knew this was being proposed. Debate like gentleman please so that this thread can stay up!

This bill goes for debate tomorrow...Senate travel, recreation, and wildlife committee. Members are Hicks, Shule (co-sponsors), Landen, Salazar, Gierau, and Ellis. There are 3665 Nonresident tags (based on 2019) they are trying to move over to residents. That would be devastating for those building points.

 

[OXN939]

The AZ Strip and Kiabab hunts used to be over the counter and any of us could hunt it every year if we wanted. AZGFD asked us what we wanted and we went to the meetings and responded. They did what we asked as residents. I'll say it again, I don't blame any states residents for wanting to able to hunt at home.

Interesting to hear, and that definitely sucks. Nothing worse than an awesome resource being ruined.

I guess I'm just not tracking how having 1 in 5 tags for the most prevalent species allocated to NRs causes any of those issues. I've never heard of a WY resident having trouble filling a Pronghorn tag. NR hunters I've met out west seem to be pretty respectful. Not a lot of guys who spend that much money, time and effort preparing for a short trip like that want to spend it screwing around and representing the hunting community poorly. I know I always feel like I have an extra level of appreciation and respect to show when I'm hunting out of state.

 

[Billinsd]

States can't afford the cost of federal land management.

Right they will sell them off.

The federal government can't afford anything either.

The Feds have a much bigger tax base, than say Montana. Would non resident hunters want to pay taxes to subsidize federal land that they can't hunt? Would they help fight against federal land transfers? It's not news it's a question? I've NEVER EVER heard or read that an angry non resident say "fine with your restrictions and high costs, good luck with your public lands fight, you own the animals, why should I pay for the land, feed, and shelter of those animals?" You hear people incorrectly say, "It's public land, states can't keep me from hunting it". What they may say in the future is "fine you own the animals, you can own and manage the land yourself too, without my tax dollars".

 

[David Gough]

Would non resident hunters want to pay taxes to subsidize federal land that they can't hunt? Would they help fight against federal land transfers? It's not news it's a question?

Some would. I do.

The amount of my federal tax dollars used to subsidize public land in states that I am not a resident in is a very small amount of my annual tax liability. There are many, many other programs the federal government runs that grind my gears before federal land management in other states.

For instance, after a quick google search I can see the 2020 budget for the BLM and USFS was approximately $7B in 2020. There is a $1.9T bill going through Congress right now that I have a hard time stomaching. It would take 271 years of that budget for our federal land management agencies to spend that type of money.

You don't choose where your tax dollars go, but you have a tiny little say in how they can be spent.

 

[cgasner1]

For me this is an elk issue and I'll adapt to any changes.

I would never make a trip to Wyoming for a deer even if the tag was $5.

I've killed antelope and I'm done with that too.The meat is great but what? 40 lbs? $600 and 24 hours of driving???

Buzz is right. Wyoming is just leveling the playing field for their residents with other western big game states. My question is who will go below 10% first because it's coming.

Hell, Chronic Worrying Disease is going to change point creep to point creepy when all the deer, elk and moose are zombies.

I think he was referring to Alaska

Oregon is 5% for non resident and half of that 5% is drawn through a outfitter


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[Billinsd]

Some would. I do.

The amount of my federal tax dollars used to subsidize public land in states that I am not a resident in is a very small amount of my annual tax liability. There are many, many other programs the federal government runs that grind my gears before federal land management in other states.

For instance, after a quick google search I can see the 2020 budget for the BLM and USFS was approximately $7B in 2020. There is a $1.9T bill going through Congress right now that I have a hard time stomaching. It would take 271 years of that budget for our federal land management agencies to spend that type of money.

You don't choose where your tax dollars go, but you have a tiny little say in how they can be spent.

Excellent!!

 

[wapitibob]

I’m sure all of you non residents of Wyoming that are complaining about this are working hard at opening up my hunting opportunities in your state. Right?

My state just came out and stated there was no way they were going to raise our pathetic 5% nr cap when raising it to 10% was included in some current topic talking points.

 

[wapitibob]

For me this is an elk issue and I'll adapt to any changes.

I would never make a trip to Wyoming for a deer even if the tag was $5.

I've killed antelope and I'm done with that too.The meat is great but what? 40 lbs? $600 and 24 hours of driving???

That's why you get an Elk tag every year.

 

[Gen273]

I don't intend to be so negative, but the reality is barring a miracle, hunting is likely going to die with our generation: just look at the rising costs, declining opportunities, and liberal agendas against both hunting and guns and ammunition.

 

[BuzzH]

Now if only Colorado would follow suit

You're retired...pitter patter, lets get at 'er.

I would support CO going to a 90-10 split.

 

[Rob5589]

I have to ask WY residents; I keep reading the 25% NR is ridiculous so, how many of you aren't getting tags for moose/sheep/goats?

I said this about Idaho as well last year; if NR are keeping residents from obtaining tags, then don't sell to NR until every resident that wants one gets one. The only residents that want NR in their states are guides and outfitters for the most part. Seems pretty simple.

 

[BuzzH]

Sure. Come on over. I guided hundreds of people from western states fishing the year I ran charters after college, and I happily took guys from work when I was in the military to my best spots. PM me for pictures of nonresidents holding Virginia citation game fish that are ten times the size of the biggest state records where those guys come from.

It seems like the only coherent argument I really hear is "Well, the other guys do it too, so I should be able to as well." I can't say that sounds like very good logic to follow in life in general. Also, what about the state with the best hunting on the continent and arguably in the world? Alaska gives out unlimited OTC tags to nonresidents for most species. Like I said originally, I think it's great that they limit "the big three" to residents or high dollar guides- I look forward to hunting sheep myself when I get AK residency, but I'll never look down on a guy from out of state trying to fill a Caribou tag as long as he's a responsible hunter.

Its about a lot more than well the other guys do it.

In 1978, Wyoming was issuing over 2,000 moose licenses, and over 400 sheep licenses.

Last year, less than 400 moose and less than 200 sheep permits.

Resident license quota's need to be adjusted to compensate for that kind of loss of opportunity. What really should happen is for Wyoming to stop issuing sheep and moose tags at all to NR's, sort of like North Dakota does with their moose licenses. But, I'm willing to allow a 90-10 split so that NR's still have some opportunity at those tags.

As for deer, elk, and pronghorn....all it will do is SHIFT where NR's draw, they'll still be getting all the region wide deer allocations, over 50% of the pronghorn tags, and still get 7,250 full price elk licenses.

It's not a loss of opportunity, just where that opportunity is shifted.