Wyoming Passes 90/10: The Worst Article You’ll Read This Year

[Steve O]

Anyone in the know, why did the task force propose point squaring? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Squaring won’t eliminate creep.

They aren’t worried about creep, they are worried about keeping as much money flowing in to WYGF as possible. With bonus points everyone “has a chance to draw”; preference points not so much…

Got to keep the low point holders engaged and sending in $$$

 

[Kimber7man]

I didn't say it would never happen, but it won't happen with this TF. The outfitters, yes outfitters, who voted for 90/10 for the big 5 have made it clear they will have no part in 90/10 DEA. Many of the other members have told me it's a non-starter. If it doesn't gain momentum in this TF, it's collecting dust on the shelf for sure. In the future, residents would have to build a strong coalition to get it rolling again and even then I have my doubts.

To answer another question, reduced price elk tags sell out in most areas in the draws and are not OTC. In fact every year they are harder to draw, Res and NR. There is no doubt for all hunters they are very underpriced. The only reason those prices haven't gone up is that they must go through the legislature. We will see higher reduced price tags in the future and more opportunity for R & NR to hunt cow elk.

Thanks,
We were deer hunting in 2020 and managed to pick up some leftover cow tags, bought them at the gas station in Wheatland. It was a fun hunt!

 

[dieselchessy]

Bonus point draw is random, there is no point creep.

True, no point creep per-se, but your odds of drawing will still go down every year as more folks join the pool.
Some folks may pull out due to no longer being able to plan ahead and have some idea of when you may draw, while others may join in due to having better odds of drawing with low points.
Bonus points are annoying as well when you have 20+ years of points and still can’t draw, meanwhile folks with 1 to 10 years of points will be drawing each year.

In bonus points systems buying points without entering the draw is about pointless. You increase your odds much more significantly by being in the draw each year, than by only buying points.

Big 5 draw odds will likely all be sub 1% for NR if they go bonus point. Most folks won’t draw in a lifetime of applying.

Should increase the raffle ticket sales though. The raffle tickets often have the better odds for better tags.

 

[Bobbyboe]

Bonus point draw is random, there is no point creep.

Will people have an option to continue to buy bonus points or preference points? If so, there is still creep.

 

[mfllood3800]

I gotta say, a year ago this thread would’ve turned into a nightmare. Good to see people can argue, without calling each other names and getting in the gutter. Keep up the good work guys.

There is one person missing, but his ban is lifted next week


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The TURKEY MASTER ?

lol

 

[Rich M]

@tdhanses
Quoted directly from the WG&F analysis report - "A preference point system will ultimately guarantee an applicant a license."

Quoted from Brian Nesvik, Chief Game Warden - "Preference points were originally intended to provide hunters with predictability and reasonable assurance that over time, their chances of drawing high demand areas would increase. Specifically for nonresidents, they were intended to help hunters predict how often they would draw a tag for their favorite areas."

wapitibob said

"The max outlay for Moose points thru 2021 was $1,570, Sheep was $1,870"

First, the G&F Dept didn't change the system to 90/10. The TF recommended it to the legislature, who passed legislation. So I guess you can sue the State of Wyoming for your max outlay of point money.
Second, your points are still valid, if and when they change to bonus, you will get an equal amount compared to your current PP AND you get to square them!
Third, the first quote is correct and the second quote above says they were "intended", so you can throw that quote out.

@Rich M you've already asked me about DEA and you obviously don't believe what I said. On another forum Buzz said I was right. There will be no recommendation for 90/10 coming from the TF and without it, it's dead in the water.

Looking at those outlays for points reminds me of the thousands of dollars I've paid to other states and never received a tag and had them change the rules along the way. Really guys?

@JM77

I was just going w what Buzz had said a couple times earlier. For whatever reason i had given him some credibility, thanks for fixing that.

I dont have much in this, just a few speed goat points and a bucket list hunt.

 

[Bighorns]

Will people have an option to continue to buy bonus points or preference points? If so, there is still creep.

My understanding from the task Force meetings is that the preference point system would convert to a squared bonus point system. I recall a brief discussion on a hybrid system, but don't think it got much traction.

 

[JM77]

@JM77

I was just going w what Buzz had said a couple times earlier. For whatever reason i had given him some credibility, thanks for fixing that.

I dont have much in this, just a few speed goat points and a bucket list hunt.

I think many of us residents are getting tired of seeing posts on the forums and articles like Guy Eastman's claiming they know everything about 90/10 and draw systems in Wyoming, but really don't. And then there is the "greed" comments. That many times leads to sarcasm of sorts.

For instance: now we have some saying there is point creep in a random draw system. So, in a bonus system, a certain number of points 100% assures a tag? Of course not. Each bonus point gives the applicant a different random number. If you have 10 bonus points squared, you get 100 random numbers, only the lowest does you any good. There is no way to define point creep in a random system. What it really is and always has been, is less tags and/or more applicants leads to lower draw odds.

I can't say Wyoming will never change DEA to 90/10. Never say never. But without a TF recommendation, with more than a simple majority, 90/10 for DEA is going on a shelf somewhere to collect dust for a long time. Everything I see and hear at the TF from members is there will be no recommendation.

 

[tdhanses]

I think many of us residents are getting tired of seeing posts on the forums and articles like Guy Eastman's claiming they know everything about 90/10 and draw systems in Wyoming, but really don't. And then there is the "greed" comments. That many times leads to sarcasm of sorts.

For instance: now we have some saying there is point creep in a random draw system. So, in a bonus system, a certain number of points 100% assures a tag? Of course not. Each bonus point gives the applicant a different random number. If you have 10 bonus points squared, you get 100 random numbers, only the lowest does you any good. There is no way to define point creep in a random system. What it really is and always has been, is less tags and/or more applicants leads to lower draw odds.

I can't say Wyoming will never change DEA to 90/10. Never say never. But without a TF recommendation, with more than a simple majority, 90/10 for DEA is going on a shelf somewhere to collect dust for a long time. Everything I see and hear at the TF from members is there will be no recommendation.

I hope you are right but it is hard to take anyone in WY at their word, say we follow your take on this and continue to build our DEA points and 5 years from now it goes 90/10, it will feel like we were tricked into continuing to give yet slapped in the face for it, if that makes sense.

What would be nice for once is residents showing a little humility/support towards the already very limited opportunity for NR and the fact they are willing to provide a substancial amount of $$ for that, which in turn is a major benefit to them and the wildelife, license fees stay low and they have amazing resident opportunities. It isn’t like WY is CO in it’s generosity to the NR for tags.

 

[QuackAttack]

Locals almost always love to hate on OOSERs and blame them for all the animals that weren’t sitting 25 yards from their pickup 5 minutes into opening day.


It’s easier to blame OOSERs than to admit to poor scouting, lazy hunting, bad marksmanship, and so on.


It never ends well.

AR did it for duck hunters because the locals all swore it was those evil OOSERs driving the birds out and taking all the best spots. Turns out, those same complainers still can’t kill birds because they suck…they can’t call, don’t have good decoys, don’t get out there at 0300….and now they complain about how they used to not even need decoys…



it’s all crap. The solution to whining complainers is to ignore them.

 

[JM77]

I hope you are right but it is hard to take anyone in WY at their word, say we follow your take on this and continue to build our DEA points and 5 years from now it goes 90/10, it will feel like we were tricked into continuing to give yet slapped in the face for it, if that makes sense.

What would be nice for once is residents showing a little humility/support towards the already very limited opportunity for NR and the fact they are willing to provide a substancial amount of $$ for that, which in turn is a major benefit to them and the wildelife, license fees stay low and they have amazing resident opportunities. It isn’t like WY is CO in it’s generosity to the NR for tags.

It's really not worth trying on forums. This response here tells me all I need to know about you.

Please don't take any stock in what I have written. Make your own choice on what you do concerning Wyoming. I'm from Wyoming afterall, and my word isn't any good.

 

[LostArra]

I hope you are right but it is hard to take anyone in WY at their word, say we follow your take on this and continue to build our DEA points and 5 years from now it goes 90/10, it will feel like we were tricked into continuing to give yet slapped in the face for it, if that makes sense.

If you are expecting the worst for DEA (to be tricked or slapped in the face) I would use your points and go hunting asap. That's why you bought them. You will enjoy the hunt and avoid any future tag quota/preference point apocalypse.

 

[jmez]

90/10 for DEA may not be on the table, but the allocation will be. They will keep tag # the same but shift the majority to general tags. To keep everyone happy another % of the limited entry tags will go to outfitters and or transferrable landowner tags.

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[HOT ROD]

I hope you are right but it is hard to take anyone in WY at their word, say we follow your take on this and continue to build our DEA points and 5 years from now it goes 90/10, it will feel like we were tricked into continuing to give yet slapped in the face for it, if that makes sense.

What would be nice for once is residents showing a little humility/support towards the already very limited opportunity for NR and the fact they are willing to provide a substancial amount of $$ for that, which in turn is a major benefit to them and the wildelife, license fees stay low and they have amazing resident opportunities. It isn’t like WY is CO in it’s generosity to the NR for tags.

Why in Gods name would any resident of Wyoming show any support or humility for a nonresident we owe U nothing. I for one and many other residents of Wyoming would like to see 90/10 for EDA and while we are at it Wyoming needs to do away with reduced price Nr Cow calf elk tags those need to go to full price nr doe fawn antelope tags need to double in price...

 

[go_deep]

What I don't understand is the mass amount of miss information, or miss understood facts about Wyoming in general in a lot of these posts.
There is too many posts to even consider addressing all of it.

In all seriousness, most of you really need to call WGFD 307-777-4600 and start from scratch.

 

[Bobbyboe]

I think many of us residents are getting tired of seeing posts on the forums and articles like Guy Eastman's claiming they know everything about 90/10 and draw systems in Wyoming, but really don't. And then there is the "greed" comments. That many times leads to sarcasm of sorts.

For instance: now we have some saying there is point creep in a random draw system. So, in a bonus system, a certain number of points 100% assures a tag? Of course not. Each bonus point gives the applicant a different random number. If you have 10 bonus points squared, you get 100 random numbers, only the lowest does you any good. There is no way to define point creep in a random system. What it really is and always has been, is less tags and/or more applicants leads to lower draw odds.

I can't say Wyoming will never change DEA to 90/10. Never say never. But without a TF recommendation, with more than a simple majority, 90/10 for DEA is going on a shelf somewhere to collect dust for a long time. Everything I see and hear at the TF from members is there will be no recommendation.

So you’re telling me Nevada doesn’t see creep in their draw system? Sure, everyone has a chance, but the average number of bonus points needed to draw goes up every year. How does a bonus point system solve creep?

To be clear, I’m not attacking you, just trying to figure out the thought process. I just don’t get the point of changing from preference points to a bonus squared system. Both have the exact same problems.

 

[deadwolf]

We can endlessly debate right or wrong in terms of how Wyoming or any other state chooses to allocate opportunities to harvest its resources. At the end of the day the fact remains that it is the lawmakers that make the decision, based on recommendations from fish and game and biologists (sometimes), and input from the constituents in that state. The nonresident has little to no say. And the chips will fall where they may, and no doubt will have consequences good or bad, depending on who you are.


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[LostArra]

So you’re telling me Nevada doesn’t see creep in their draw system? Sure, everyone has a chance, but the average number of bonus points needed to draw goes up every year. How does a bonus point system solve creep?

To be clear, I’m not attacking you, just trying to figure out the thought process. I just don’t get the point of changing from preference points to a bonus squared system. Both have the exact same problems.

There are no minimum number of bonus points "needed" to draw. You can have one bonus point and be successful while your buddy has 144 bonus points and is unsuccessful.

 

[CJ19]

Why in Gods name would any resident of Wyoming show any support or humility for a nonresident we owe U nothing. I for one and many other residents of Wyoming would like to see 90/10 for EDA and while we are at it Wyoming needs to do away with reduced price Nr Cow calf elk tags those need to go to full price nr doe fawn antelope tags need to double in price...

You think a lot of wyo residents feel this way? This would make it easier to feed their families?

 

[gonhunting247]

Anyone in the know, why did the task force propose point squaring? Seems like lipstick on a pig.

Squaring won’t eliminate creep.

I would agree, it will not eliminate point creep. ( just changes the name and eliminates highest point guarantees IMO)
Unfortunately it comes down to money probably. If they stay preference points everyone not in the top point level will most likely drop out due to the lack of random tags. If they go bonus points there's still that chance to draw at any level, so people will be more apt to hang in there and keep buying points. It just depends where your at with points currently, whether it's good or bad. With 19 points currently I am not sure which it is for me (probably bad )! Sure hope I draw this year! (probably dreaming )
Just to be clear I understand both sides of this debate (R and NR) and I don't think there is a good answer for everyone. It does put guys with a lot invested in a tough spot (19 points), but all you can do is make a decision that best works for you and make sure your voice is heard on these issues now and in the future and hope for the best. Unfortunately I think it's only going to get worse everywhere.
Have fun while you can, there's still a lot of good opportunities out there for now!
(Edited top statement, notice the IMO )