Wyoming 90/10 for elk

[Steve O]

Yes as Bob had illustrated, Buzz and his crew including the Senators have made it abundantly clear they have no interest whatsoever in what the non residents have to say. All we can do is see what if any scraps are left and use our points wisely in whatever way the residents say they want them used.

It will be very interesting to see who the outfitters go after next. They have a powerful lobby and if 2020 has taught us anything it is the will of the people is not nearly as powerful as what the most powerful and corrupt want.

At least Sy’s grandchildren will get those tags. They ARE doing it for the children…

 

[wapitibob]

Yes as Bob had illustrated, Buzz and his crew including the Senators have made it abundantly clear they have no interest whatsoever in what the non residents have to say. All we can do is see what if any scraps are left and use our points wisely in whatever way the residents say they want them used.

It will be very interesting to see who the outfitters go after next. They have a powerful lobby and if 2020 has taught us anything it is the will of the people is not nearly as powerful as what the most powerful and corrupt want.

At least Sy’s grandchildren will get those tags. They ARE doing it for the children…

Maybe spend a few minutes on the phone with Buzz and get to know him.

 

[BuzzH]

Maybe spend a few minutes on the phone with Buzz and get to know him.

No, its easier to kick allies and expect them to not notice.

What's really funny is Steve there was a recipient of a program Jeff and I passed that he took advantage of.

I often wonder why I even bother.

 

[mtnbiker208]

Besides, Idaho, new mexico, nevada, montana and now wyoming, what other states have some type of "outfitter welfare" going on?

I don't hunt out of state enough to pay attention to all the other states programs.

 

[BuzzH]

Besides, Idaho, new mexico, nevada, montana and now wyoming, what other states have some type of "outfitter welfare" going on?

I don't hunt out of state enough to pay attention to all the other states programs.

Colorado, Utah and Oregon.

Oh, but its Wyoming that isn't doing anything to stop it here.

Curious what all the residents of those states were doing when the same thing happened there?

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Colorado, Utah and Oregon.

Oh, but its Wyoming that isn't doing anything to stop it here.

Curious what all the residents of those states were doing when the same thing happened there?

I have been trying to find this outfitter draw/allocation or outfitter pref point in the Colorado regs but I can’t seem to find it. Am I missing something? With OTC for R and NR across most of the state I guess it isn’t really an issue. That and the opportunity to pick up transferable landowner tags but I wouldn’t really categorize that as an outfitter set-aside or “welfare”. More like an indirect benefit to outfitters (and hunters willing to shell out the cash) but really benefits landowners directly.

 

[Wags]

I have been trying to find this outfitter draw/allocation or outfitter pref point in the Colorado regs but I can’t seem to find it. Am I missing something? With OTC for R and NR across most of the state I guess it isn’t really an issue. That and the opportunity to pick up transferable landowner tags but I wouldn’t really categorize that as an outfitter set-aside or “welfare”. More like an indirect benefit to outfitters (and hunters willing to shell out the cash) but really benefits landowners directly.

Some landowner vouchers get “sold” to hunters using Outfitters in my area. A portion of that is kept by the Outfitter & a portion is given to the land owner. While it’s not a direct funding or set asides for Outfitters, it happens.

 

[tdhanses]

Yes as Bob had illustrated, Buzz and his crew including the Senators have made it abundantly clear they have no interest whatsoever in what the non residents have to say. All we can do is see what if any scraps are left and use our points wisely in whatever way the residents say they want them used.

It will be very interesting to see who the outfitters go after next. They have a powerful lobby and if 2020 has taught us anything it is the will of the people is not nearly as powerful as what the most powerful and corrupt want.

At least Sy’s grandchildren will get those tags. They ARE doing it for the children…

I’ve said my thoughts on other threads but truthfully even those that say they are for the NR or have done things to benefit the NR don’t discuss everything they have pushed or helped get passed that was a detriment to NR.

For me I’m going to sit back and see what happens in WY, either way I’ll still hunt there when it’s convenient. A 50% set aside will allow some to hunt annually vs every 8 years, I bet if the outfitters don’t get the set aside this entire change is dead but maybe not, be interesting to see what the tag number is if the cap is removed, even if the outfitters get 50% if they increase general tags to 15k for elk, it won’t change much for the NR negatively. Also be interesting to see what tag number changes are proposed for deer and pronghorn before NR get too worked up, could still be a change with little effect other then to difficult to get Limited tags.

It’ll also be interesting to see what the drop is in western states in apps/pts purchased once the baby boomers drop out of the game, I have a hard time believing 50% of those playing the game are 18-28, I bet more like 60% are 45-75 with many never using their points due to health issues or even death. Remeber an 80 year old NR that has maybe hunted in the west 5 times probably will walk away vs an 80 year old WY rancher that works everyday in the country they’ll hunt.

In 10 years being a NR might actually be a good thing outside of the big 5, if one can afford it. Makes one wonder if western states have even looked at age stats to see how soon NR dollars will probably decline, today is the peak of interest/age class that can afford it, the youth will not afford it for a long time if they even have an interest in it.

 

[Rifleman86]

Let’s say this thing passes I also wonder if we get to a point where the outfitters 50% fails to get fully utilized.

I’m in my mid 30s, I have zero desire to go on an outfitted hunt for numerous reasons, most of which I’ve already mentioned.

I feel like most of the folks my age and younger who are into western hunting feel similarly. We want the satisfaction of accomplishing things on our own, and thanks to technology we know we can. YouTube helped us learn how to fix our car, our plumbing, and even hunt elk.

While the older generation felt an outfitted hunt was a status symbol, or even a necessity based on age or fitness. That huge baby boomer population who had the wealth and desire to hunt with an outfitter every year is starting to age out. The outfitters are feeling it.

Despite things not looking great not all hope is lost in my mind. I firmly believe we are seeing the actions of a desperate industry in its death throes. Solid industries don’t need to manipulate markets like this.

The younger generation doesn’t care to be babysat WYOGA. Welcome to capitalism, adapt or die.

 

[Kimber7man]

30 year olds aren't special. Younger generations have never cared to be babysat, since the beginning of time....

As for learning how to fix my truck, plumbing, electrical, or learn to hunt, I didn't need Youtube as my Dad and Grandpa took personal interest in teaching me.

 

[Rifleman86]

30 year olds aren't special. Younger generations have never cared to be babysat, since the beginning of time....

As for learning how to fix my truck, plumbing, electrical, or learn to hunt, I didn't need Youtube as my Dad and Grandpa took personal interest in teaching me.

Jesus the “boomer” stereotype is the gift that keeps on giving.

Yes younger generations have less desire to use an outfitter. A big part of that is because we have technology and access to information the older generation didn’t have.

It’s a fact, not a personal insult.

 

[tdhanses]

Let’s say this thing passes I also wonder if we get to a point where the outfitters 50% fails to get fully utilized.

I’m in my mid 30s, I have zero desire to go on an outfitted hunt for numerous reasons, most of which I’ve already mentioned.

I feel like most of the folks my age and younger who are into western hunting feel similarly. We want the satisfaction of accomplishing things on our own, and thanks to technology we know we can. YouTube helped us learn how to fix our car, our plumbing, and even hunt elk.

While the older generation felt an outfitted hunt was a status symbol, or even a necessity based on age or fitness. That huge baby boomer population who had the wealth and desire to hunt with an outfitter every year is starting to age out. The outfitters are feeling it.

Despite things not looking great not all hope is lost in my mind. I firmly believe we are seeing the actions of a desperate industry in its death throes. Solid industries don’t need to manipulate markets like this.

The younger generation doesn’t care to be babysat WYOGA. Welcome to capitalism, adapt or die.

You follow the stereotypes of what you believe is an outfitted hunt, bet if you went on just one you would truly see how lazy 90% of diy hunters are, just saying from experience. I did my first outfitted hunt last year and the only thing different from diy was I didn't cook my dinner or pack out my elk, most won’t get outfitted hunts till they actually experience both, on my hunt my guide would tell you he sat back while I did the work as far as hinting, every experience in your life will be what you make it, to me my outfitted hunt was a packer.

I hunt diy every year and will never change that but don’t think an outfitted hunt is just a walk in the park, the guys that think that have the same success diy or outfitted really, was easy to see in camp who was lazy, outfitted or not only 10-15% of hunters are successful.

 

[Rifleman86]

You follow the stereotypes of what you believe is an outfitted hunt, bet if you went on just one you would truly see how lazy 90% of diy hunters are, just saying from experience. i did my fist outfitted hunt and the only thing different from diy. Was I didnt cook my dinner. But most wont get it till they actually experience both, on my hunt my guide would tell you he sat back while I did the work, every experience in your life will be what you make it, too me my outfitteed hint was a packer.

I hunt diy every year and will never change that but don’t think an outfitted hunt is just a walk in the park, the guys that think that have the same success diy or outfitted really, was easy to see in camp who was lazy.

Depends on the outfitted hunt.

No doubt outfitted hunts can be tough. They can also be easy, depending on a ton of variables.

It’s also a bit of a safety net. An understandable one, and I don’t disparage anyone for wanting that. The mountains can be extremely unforgiving.

I just don’t like anyone telling me I have to have one.

Regardless of outfitted or not, effort is the #1 predictor of success in the mountains. That’s part of the reason I love this stuff so much!

ETA And yes, 90% of DIY guys are lazy. That’s why most of them go home empty handed. Those mountains are always a lot bigger than they looked on OnX.

 

[tdhanses]

Depends on the outfitted hunt.

No doubt outfitted hunts can be tough. They can also be easy, depending on a ton of variables.

It’s also a bit of a safety net. An understandable one, and I don’t disparage anyone for wanting that. The mountains can be extremely unforgiving.

I just don’t like anyone telling me I have to have one.

Regardless of outfitted or not, effort is the #1 predictor of success in the mountains. That’s part of the reason I love this stuff so much!

Oh I agree I don’t want to be forced into one but don’t kid yourself on how easy a western outfitted hunt on public land is. You have to compare apples to apples and diy for the most part is on public land, can’t compare that to a private land utv hunt. Outfitted public land is just as difficult as diy public land.

That said if it goes to 50% outfitted if you really want to hunt you’ll pay for a public land outfitted hunt vs sitting on the couch if it truly is that important to hunt the west as a NR annually.

 

[kparrott]

Let’s say this thing passes I also wonder if we get to a point where the outfitters 50% fails to get fully utilized.

I’m in my mid 30s, I have zero desire to go on an outfitted hunt for numerous reasons, most of which I’ve already mentioned.

I feel like most of the folks my age and younger who are into western hunting feel similarly. We want the satisfaction of accomplishing things on our own, and thanks to technology we know we can. YouTube helped us learn how to fix our car, our plumbing, and even hunt elk.

While the older generation felt an outfitted hunt was a status symbol, or even a necessity based on age or fitness. That huge baby boomer population who had the wealth and desire to hunt with an outfitter every year is starting to age out. The outfitters are feeling it.

Despite things not looking great not all hope is lost in my mind. I firmly believe we are seeing the actions of a desperate industry in its death throes. Solid industries don’t need to manipulate markets like this.

The younger generation doesn’t care to be babysat WYOGA. Welcome to capitalism, adapt or die.

As someone in my early 30’s, I have to disagree with you about guided hunts. There is a lot of information that is more readily available than 10 years ago, but it doesn’t mean people are successful.

I just booked a guided elk hunt for a couple reasons. One, a horseback hunt out of wall tents is a dream of mine… and I’m not going to buy horses just for the hunt. Two, and more importantly, you can learn a lot and shorten the learning curve with a good guide.

While I don’t necessarily agree with the possibility of 90/10 rule as a NR, in your words, adapt or die.


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[cgasner1]

Even from a resident stand point I would be pist. It changes the unit that my buddy wants by like 3% but adds how much more pressure to the general unit on the years he doesn’t draw. This added pressure isn’t going to just be a couple more people with this it will be a pile of guys with outfitters out to kill elk. Hunting spots they have never seen people before and pushing clients farther than the average guy will go. They are adding tags to that general and then locking them up for these outfitters I bet they will see a 400% increase in business from this. Hope you residents like this kind of pressure


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[Z Barebow]

I will be writing the TF. Although not favorable to me as an NR, I can tolerate most recommendations. The one I have an issue with is outfitter set asides.

D&A are no where close to 50% outfitter utilization of NR tags.

I really think the outfitter 50% allocation is a shoot for the moon proposal, knowing % will get reduced. But outfitters would be willing to "compromise" to a reduced %. They will wring their hands and state they had to "give", but they knowingly are going in to get outfitter welfare established. But make no mistake, whether it is is 50% of NR tags or 1 tag set aside for outfitters, it is still welfare.

I equate this to stealing from your employer. Whether you steal a pencil or a laptop, you are still a thief. You are only reconciling the magnitude of thievery.

 

[southLA]

I really think the outfitter 50% allocation is a shoot for the moon proposal, knowing % will get reduced. But outfitters would be willing to "compromise" to a reduced %. They will wring their hands and state they had to "give", but they knowingly are going in to get outfitter welfare established. But make no mistake, whether it is is 50% of NR tags or 1 tag set aside for outfitters, it is still welfare

Just like gun control. Put EVERYTHING in the bill and then "compromise". Over and over and over.

 

[Indian Summer]

I will be writing the TF. Although not favorable to me as an NR, I can tolerate most recommendations. The one I have an issue with is outfitter set asides.

D&A are no where close to 50% outfitter utilization of NR tags.

I really think the outfitter 50% allocation is a shoot for the moon proposal, knowing % will get reduced. But outfitters would be willing to "compromise" to a reduced %. They will wring their hands and state they had to "give", but they knowingly are going in to get outfitter welfare established. But make no mistake, whether it is is 50% of NR tags or 1 tag set aside for outfitters, it is still welfare.

I equate this to stealing from your employer. Whether you steal a pencil or a laptop, you are still a thief. You are only reconciling the scope of thievery.

That’s like a little kid writing a letter to Santa Claise. Good luck with that.

 

[805Bowhunter]

Catching up on this thread and saw that Buzz got banned. How the heck did that happen? Not trying to derail but was surprised to see that. Know a lot of people dislike the guy but why did he get banned?