Wyoming 90/10 for elk

[LostArra]

Yes...and it's fantasyland that the GF would increase nr general tags by 1000.

There could possibly be less nr general tags issued in some regions or, most likely the additional general tags would be given in areas with mostly private land, think unit 6.

I'm not opposed to nr region general elk. Makes sense management wise.

Buzz: is there any reliable data indicating how many non-resident elk hunters use an outfitter? It seems like I read it is close to 50%. The reason I mention "reliable" is that I assume WOGA threw out some numbers at the TF meetings.

With the outfitter welfare compromise would you expect an increase in the number of outfitters getting licensed in Wyoming? I can't really see that as being good for resident or non-resident hunters.

 

[BuzzH]

Buzz: is there any reliable data indicating how many non-resident elk hunters use an outfitter? It seems like I read it is close to 50%. The reason I mention "reliable" is that I assume WOGA threw out some numbers at the TF meetings.

With the outfitter welfare compromise would you expect an increase in the number of outfitters getting licensed in Wyoming? I can't really see that as being good for resident or non-resident hunters.

Yes there is...let me see if I can dig up the numbers.

3014 elk, 2656 pronghorn, 2553 deer, 62 sheep, 39 moose.

Total guided hunts all species about 8400.

Second part of your question, Sy was telling the task force that outfitter numbers would not increase.

Also, he wants authority given to outfitters to implement regulations on which outfitters get the set asides...can't see anything but a train wreck if that were to happen.

This grand compromise is total BS, from stem to stern.

 

[jayhawkmarauder]

Up next on the agenda in a couple years , "Why all the General Units have too many Non residents"

 

[Wags]

Is this 90/10 on ducks to because I really want to shoot some mallards on those warm water creeks I have seen videos of guys doing.

I've got a new 28ga I'd love to put to use on some of those hunts.... someday.

 

[Rifleman86]

By regulation nrs receive 7250 full priced elk tags. Going from memory nrs get about 3000 or so lq elk tags. Leaving another 4000 or so general tags.

90-10 would mean around 1500 lq 5500 general tags. Under the grand compromise, half of the general tags would go to outfitters.

I could almost live with this if our “half” of the deal was getting rid of the wilderness rule.

Even prior to 90/10 being a question, I never planned on hunting a LE unit. I’ve always had awesome hunts with general tags. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze for LE for me personally. I’d rather have the freedom to hunt more general areas without a babysitter.

Of course I realize with this wildlife TF getting rid of the wilderness rule is a complete pipe dream. Them agreeing to that would mean we (as NR DIY folks) would have some leverage to negotiate, which it seems we don’t.

 

[BuzzH]

I could almost live with this if our “half” of the deal was getting rid of the wilderness rule.

Even prior to 90/10 being a question, I never planned on hunting a LE unit. I’ve always had awesome hunts with general tags. The juice isn’t worth the squeeze for LE for me personally. I’d rather have the freedom to hunt more general areas without a babysitter.

Of course I realize with this wildlife TF getting rid of the wilderness rule is a complete pipe dream. Them agreeing to that would mean we (as NR DIY folks) would have some leverage to negotiate, which it seems we don’t.

It was brought up a couple times to repeal the wilderness guide law and was quickly shot down. Its a non-starter for sure.

 

[Rifleman86]

It was brought up a couple times to repeal the wilderness guide law and was quickly shot down. Its a non-starter for sure.

Thanks for bringing it up anyways on our behalf. I’m saddened but not at all surprised it got shot down.

 

[BuzzH]

Thanks for bringing it up anyways on our behalf. I’m saddened but not at all surprised it got shot down.

Its a terrible law no question.

 

[bayoublaster7527]

Well this thread and the state of the TF is depressing, but it may be helpful to keep some perspective.
Godspeed to the WY folks fighting the good fight with the TF and their local reps.
On a brighter note it was a beautiful Memorial Day weekend spent enjoying public lands doing something other than hunting….

 

[Zzyzx]

Are DIY NR comments actually persuasive to the TF or WY legislature? I will do it if those in the know think it can really matter.

WY GFD already knows how many NRs kept sending money after the Moose/Sheep PP price hikes and 90/10 on Big 5. We can’t just threaten to exit Wyoming anymore – you have to actually follow through to make your “comment”. Burn your D-E-P points and exit. I will do so if 90-5-5 passes. And then I will redouble efforts to make my state more restrictive to match the new WY Outfitter/Wilderness model. WY would be giving 5% to DIY NR + restrictions on NRs in wilderness. So, 97/3 is perhaps a rough equivalent to Wyoming’s “grand compromise”… Or, maybe structure it as 90-7-3 if the other western states want to cut their local outfitters in on the NR cash.

And Thank you to the Wyomingites that are fighting this. I want you to get your 90%. I just also want all of my 10% (including the wilderness). Anything less than that and WY just leapfrogged to be one of the most discriminatory western states.

 

[jmez]

Up next on the agenda in a couple years , "Why all the General Units have too many Non residents"

Correct. It's laughable that people are surprised with any of this.

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[Elkangle]

Looks like hunters pushing hunting to the Rich and privileged again

Everyone is chasing an unattainable dream of perfection and blaming everyone else for why things aren't working out

Trying to fight this is nearly impossible...your odds of becoming wealthy are better and easier to achieve then your odds of drawing a "cheap" tag....

Good work everyone

 

[Rifleman86]

Looks like hunters pushing hunting to the Rich and privileged again

Everyone is chasing an unattainable dream of perfection and blaming everyone else for why things aren't working out

Trying to fight this is nearly impossible...your odds of becoming wealthy are better and easier to achieve then your odds of drawing a "cheap" tag....

Good work everyone

Here is the problem, even if I was “wealthy” I wouldn’t want to hunt with an outfitter.

To me it’s like getting an incentive ride in a two seater F-16 and calling yourself a fighter pilot. Sure you saw and felt everything the guy up front did, but you were just along for the ride.

Even if I was blessed enough to live in WY I’d still want to come to Ohio and hunt rutting whitetails, or Alaskan Moose, etc.

Everyone is becoming so selfish, locking down their state hoping to keep things looking just like they did 20 years ago that they are failing to see the big picture. We’ve got existential threats to hunting itself at the border so to speak, and meanwhile we’re fighting our next door neighbors.

Outfitters need to face the fact their industry is facing change it’s going to have to adapt with in order to survive. If you asked me or most guys out east in 2005 what I needed to hunt elk I’d say 5-7k and an outfitter. 2020 me knows better and I’m not alone. They are desperately trying to get that genie back in the bottle, and in the process wrecking a lot of hunting heritage in the process.

The ironic thing is, the only reason a lot of these outfitters have anything, or any semblance of an industry to begin with is because the founders of the American conservation movement were very selfless in creating what we have today.

It’s going to take that same spirit of selflessness among all of us to keep it.

 

[HOT ROD]

As a Wyoming resident I will be sending emails and making phone calls to try to stop this from passing because giving one tag to outfitters is one to many let alone %40 to %50 percent. I feel there is a lot of residents who feel the same way... Nonresidents should be blowing up emails and phones it mite not help but its probably better than doing nothing....

 

[mxgust]

As a Wyoming resident I will be sending emails and making phone calls to try to stop this from passing because giving one tag to outfitters is one to many let alone %40 to %50 percent. I feel there is a lot of residents who feel the same way... Nonresidents should be blowing up emails and phones it mite not help but its probably better than doing nothing....

I’m a resident and I will be doing the same. This whole outfitter thing is ridiculous. Good outfitters will adapt and survive without a special handout and bad ones won’t. The same as every other business on earth. Everyone commenting in this thread should be sending in emails and making calls. Be thoughtful and respectful and make your point and if it comes to legislation do the same thing. The squeaky wheel gets the grease and if the outfitters are the only ones who show up guess who is going to get their way

 

[Rich M]

As a Wyoming resident I will be sending emails and making phone calls to try to stop this from passing because giving one tag to outfitters is one to many let alone %40 to %50 percent. I feel there is a lot of residents who feel the same way... Nonresidents should be blowing up emails and phones it mite not help but its probably better than doing nothing....

Someone needs to aid the NR in their approach. I mentioned that someone needs to lead the charge but noone really cares. The NR emails and letters were called whiney and understandably so cause all folks see if the end of all things good for NR.

We can’t just threaten to exit Wyoming anymore – you have to actually follow through to make your “comment”. Burn your D-E-P points and exit.

There’s a bunch of guys who seem pretty much done w WY. No threat here, just want an antelope buck in 2023 and done.

Its a shame but hunting is becoming more and more constrictive. Not enough land for the volume of hunters. Add the trophy aspect and suddenly it is even tougher to go hunt. Only you can decide if it is worth it.

 

[Bighorner]

Someone needs to aid the NR in their approach. I mentioned that someone needs to lead the charge but noone really cares. The NR emails and letters were called whiney and understandably so cause all folks see if the end of all things good for NR.


There’s a bunch of guys who seem pretty much done w WY. No threat here, just want an antelope buck in 2023 and done.

Its a shame but hunting is becoming more and more constrictive. Not enough land for the volume of hunters. Add the trophy aspect and suddenly it is even tougher to go hunt. Only you can decide if it is worth it.

This is a very straight forward thing to do. You don't need someone to take the lead or do it for you. Each TF has a publicly avaible email. There is a comment link on the website that will be active soon. Write a polite and coherent letter. Maybe even thank them for their time.

I would not make threats, the numbers are not on your side. Maybe state that Wyoming has always tauted freedom and small government, (a fair number of folks on the TF are politicians) but forcing 50% of NRs to use an outfitter is anything but.

Point out it is a hand out to outfitters. It is not a safety concern. It creates an artificial floor on priceing and is not good for anyone but a select few outfitters. The jobs it creates are seasonal and that means little to no lasting impact for communities. DIY hunters spread their dollars more evenly when they participate in an open market (capitalism). It should be the place of WOGA to help market their members services not legislate they become mandatory.

If the individual parts of the grand compromise can not get passed as a stand alone it is a good indication they should be left alone and the TF should move on.

 

[cgasner1]

I believe the outfitters are for this because they will make significantly more money from the general tags. I don’t think it’s about the le tags for them they will be guaranteed half of the general tags that is absolutely insane since that number is not moving


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[wapitibob]

Are DIY NR comments actually persuasive to the TF or WY legislature? I will do it if those in the know think it can really matter.

 

[Zzyzx]

Thank you – and that is exactly the NR sentiment I would expect from the TF & legislature. Kudos to Sen Landon for being honest that he only cares about residents (his constituents) and not the 700 NR emails he received. He is not “enamored” and “doesn’t’ care a lot” about those people (NRs).

So, keep sending money to WY GFD in 90-5-5 + NR Wilderness rule is still a good value for you. The only comment that matters from an NR is your dollars because you don’t vote in Wyoming. They think Sy represents you.

Most western state NRs might find their time and money better spent in their own states advocating for 97-3 or even 90-7-3 to approximate Wyoming’s new model. States reciprocating discrimination against each other in this fashion is as old as the US Constitution.