WY Corner crossing update

[wyo]

You are right I haven't lost anything because I am afraid to do it as well. I don't want my hunt to end up in court with some fat cat landowner breathing down my neck either. I hunt way into national forest, I don't even get within miles of property lines. I was just kind of playing devils advocate that someone should be watching all involved.

I guess a case could be made that "everyone" would lose a chance to be able to corner cross in the future if these guys don't succeed. If there were hard rules in favor of it I would do it. GPS technology is accurate enough for it to be legal in my opinion.

No offense but this presumption is false and, IMHO, is the biggest liability to public land hunters if there is any sort of precedent set in the corner crossing debacle. Even if it becomes allowable via court ruling at "established and monumented" (by a professional land surveyor) corners, plenty of hunters will set off with their phone (which ain't a Trimble, FYI) to find the corner on their map, end up trespassing on private property, and be ticketed for it. I've spent enough time in my career wandering around looking for survey monuments that I'll bet you a case of beer you aren't going to find the one you're looking for when it counts. I want more access to public lands just like the rest but I feel like we may just be inviting more clashes with landowners. Hell, we might do better by just donating that extra dollar to the Access Yes program instead of these guys legal defense fund.

 

[BuzzH]

Yeah I know its a far fetched idea but people with a lot of money have a lot of TIME to think up far fetched ideas.

Lets see we only need to buy:

1 DA
1 Sheriff
2-3 Hunters

Not a very big grocery list in these times......

Not everyone is for sale....

 

[BigBull777]

Here’s what I find both highly probable and somewhat ironic. In the end the courts will rule that the public has a right to cross corners and “access” publicly owned lands. Wyoming residents, the true DIY guys, will cheer loudly as they now finally access these public goldmines and hunt till their hearts desire. Only in true Wyoming fashion, don’t think for one split second that their leaders care anything about them. Instead they will quickly succumb to the will of the large and powerful landowners and outfitters in the State, quickly and easily passing a new law that prevents anyone, resident or non resident from hunting in these ‘former landlocked public parcels’ without the expressed written permission of the adjacent landowners. Your really think they give a rats behind about the average joe/Jane? It’s not even hard to imagine their reasoning, they own the wildlife and can restrict harvest in any means they choose. I mean that’s exactly what they’ve done by enacting additional restrictions for NR hunters that allow them to access wilderness area for anything but hunting. Time will only tell. It’s called Karma

 

[204guy]

Here’s what I find both highly probable and somewhat ironic. In the end the courts will rule that the public has a right to cross corners and “access” publicly owned lands. Wyoming residents, the true DIY guys, will cheer loudly as they now finally access these public goldmines and hunt till their hearts desire. Only in true Wyoming fashion, don’t think for one split second that their leaders care anything about them. Instead they will quickly succumb to the will of the large and powerful landowners and outfitters in the State, quickly and easily passing a new law that prevents anyone, resident or non resident from hunting in these ‘former landlocked public parcels’ without the expressed written permission of the adjacent landowners. Your really think they give a rats behind about the average joe/Jane? It’s not even hard to imagine their reasoning, they own the wildlife and can restrict harvest in any means they choose. I mean that’s exactly what they’ve done by enacting additional restrictions for NR hunters that allow them to access wilderness area for anything but hunting. Time will only tell. It’s called Karma

So let me see if I understand here. The legislature that just passed a law to the benefit of resident hunters is going to pass an unwrite-able, unenforceable law at the behest of wealthy NR landowners? One that also goes against a recent Federal ruling? Now that I wrote it out, yeah seems highly probable.

 

[Btaylor]

@BuzzH you laugh and scoff at comments made about WY and in general seem to be a to the core richard noggin. Maybe not but that is the way you come off online. I believe you have said in the past that NR's of WY are free to use and express opinions about access too and use of all the federal lands in WY. But also stated we have no and should not have any say in hunting regs.

So the thought that keeps running through my head is that all of the NR's ban together through our elected officials and demand an end to all for profit enterprise on all federal lands in the great state of WY. Maybe there would be more hunting opportunities for everyone if we all ban together and get the freeloaders off of all of our property. What say you?

 

[307]

is that all of the NR's ban together through our elected officials and demand an end to all for profit enterprise on all federal lands in the great state of WY. Maybe there would be more hunting opportunities for everyone if we all ban together and get the freeloaders off of all of our property. What say you?

You should definitely ban [sic] together...

I'm sure the fact that your panties are in a twist over a state game management issue, which doesn't affect you unless you choose it, will be at the top of federal legislation efforts. Considering the $billion$ that comes into the state and federal government as a result of those activities, I'm sure your tantrum will be taken VERY seriously.

 

[BuzzH]

@BuzzH you laugh and scoff at comments made about WY and in general seem to be a to the core richard noggin. Maybe not but that is the way you come off online. I believe you have said in the past that NR's of WY are free to use and express opinions about access too and use of all the federal lands in WY. But also stated we have no and should not have any say in hunting regs.

So the thought that keeps running through my head is that all of the NR's ban together through our elected officials and demand an end to all for profit enterprise on all federal lands in the great state of WY. Maybe there would be more hunting opportunities for everyone if we all ban together and get the freeloaders off of all of our property. What say you?

What do I say?

Does it matter, you won't hear it or comprehend it.

But for another try.

As a nr you can comment on anything you want in regard to public lands. Your voice will carry the same weight as all other 340 million public land owners.

As a nr you are also free to comment on any state of Wyoming wildlife issues. Your voice will NOT carry the same weight as mine. The state is obligated by law, to manage wildlife for the beneficiaries of the state it resides in...that would be residents of Wyoming.

Federal public lands and state controlled wildlife are mutually exclusive. They are managed for different beneficiaries and also under different mandates by 2 separate governing bodies.

You seem to want to tie them together and until you realize the separation of authority, influence, and mandates between the two, you will continue to be confused, irritated, and upset.

Just the way it's is, has been, and always will be in regard to the differences between federal lands and wildlife resources.

 

[BuzzH]

@BuzzH you laugh and scoff at comments made about WY and in general seem to be a to the core richard noggin. Maybe not but that is the way you come off online. I believe you have said in the past that NR's of WY are free to use and express opinions about access too and use of all the federal lands in WY. But also stated we have no and should not have any say in hunting regs.

So the thought that keeps running through my head is that all of the NR's ban together through our elected officials and demand an end to all for profit enterprise on all federal lands in the great state of WY. Maybe there would be more hunting opportunities for everyone if we all ban together and get the freeloaders off of all of our property. What say you?

Might want to check the Constitutional violations of your proposal before you proceed....

 

[BigBull777]

So let me see if I understand here. The legislature that just passed a law to the benefit of resident hunters is going to pass an unwrite-able, unenforceable law at the behest of wealthy NR landowners? One that also goes against a recent Federal ruling? Now that I wrote it out, yeah seems highly probable.

I’m glad you feel that your elected leaders have the interests of everyday WY residents at the top of their list, as opposed to large landowners or outfitters. Your right, they deeply care about you. Heck, I bet all Wyoming ranchers, and the outfitters that currently lease their places, would just love to share those previous land locked sections with lots of other non paying hunters- so long as they were fellow residents of Wyoming.

 

[cfdjay]

No offense but this presumption is false and, IMHO, is the biggest liability to public land hunters if there is any sort of precedent set in the corner crossing debacle. Even if it becomes allowable via court ruling at "established and monumented" (by a professional land surveyor) corners, plenty of hunters will set off with their phone (which ain't a Trimble, FYI) to find the corner on their map, end up trespassing on private property, and be ticketed for it. I've spent enough time in my career wandering around looking for survey monuments that I'll bet you a case of beer you aren't going to find the one you're looking for when it counts. I want more access to public lands just like the rest but I feel like we may just be inviting more clashes with landowners. Hell, we might do better by just donating that extra dollar to the Access Yes program instead of these guys legal defense fund.

Am I crazy or did I just recently read that this exact thing is moving forward. A bill or something. Now I can't find it. They didn't name OnX directly just a vague description of those apps being admissible in court. I'll keep looking...

 

[Bighorner]

No offense but this presumption is false and, IMHO, is the biggest liability to public land hunters if there is any sort of precedent set in the corner crossing debacle. Even if it becomes allowable via court ruling at "established and monumented" (by a professional land surveyor) corners, plenty of hunters will set off with their phone (which ain't a Trimble, FYI) to find the corner on their map, end up trespassing on private property, and be ticketed for it. I've spent enough time in my career wandering around looking for survey monuments that I'll bet you a case of beer you aren't going to find the one you're looking for when it counts. I want more access to public lands just like the rest but I feel like we may just be inviting more clashes with landowners. Hell, we might do better by just donating that extra dollar to the Access Yes program instead of these guys legal defense fund.

I'm not a lawyer, but I have spent a couple minutes looking for corners. I believe if you are looking for a corner in good faith, it's hard to get you on trespassing. You literally are looking for evidence of an unclear boundary. If you dont know where the pin is, neither does the other guy. This is obviously painting with a broad brush and every circumstance is different.

I also believe there may be some land surveyors out there willing to do a good retractable survey that established those corners of they are lost, and file corner recs on them.

 

[Bighorner]

Am I crazy or did I just recently read that this exact thing is moving forward. A bill or something. Now I can't find it. They didn't name OnX directly just a vague description of those apps being admissible in court. I'll keep looking...

Onx is a great tool. It's like a 28oz hammer. It gets a lot done in a hurry, it's just not the best for the finish work. Like knowing the location of a property line down to a foot.

 

[Wyobohunter]

So the thought that keeps running through my head is that all of the NR's ban together through our elected officials and demand an end to all for profit enterprise on all federal lands in the great state of WY.

What do all of non-residents intend to ban, dictionaries ?

Let’s all lighten up. I get mad too so I’ll try to take my own advice.

 

[wyo]

I'm not a lawyer, but I have spent a couple minutes looking for corners. I believe if you are looking for a corner in good faith, it's hard to get you on trespassing. You literally are looking for evidence of an unclear boundary. If you dont know where the pin is, neither does the other guy. This is obviously painting with a broad brush and every circumstance is different.

I also believe there may be some land surveyors out there willing to do a good retractable survey that established those corners of they are lost, and file corner recs on them.

I don't disagree, I just think there would still be a lot of exposure for hunters trying to corner-hop on poorly marked or unmarked corners adjacent to disgruntled landowners. And wandering around looking for a corner, while equipped to hunt, isn't going to be as easy to defend as someone in a construction vest carrying a GPS pole.

 

[Bighorner]

I don't disagree, I just think there would still be a lot of exposure for hunters trying to corner-hop on poorly marked or unmarked corners adjacent to disgruntled landowners. And wandering around looking for a corner, while equipped to hunt, isn't going to be as easy to defend as someone in a construction vest carrying a GPS pole.

I can appreciate that, it certainly brings a fairly technical aspect to access. I completely agree hunters will need to be more informed and careful if they use corners for access, but I do think it can be done respectfully and lawfully. They would certainly want to find the corner before relying on it for an early morning hunt.

 

[Ucsdryder]

I think if anything they will withdraw and refile, wash and repeat. I have found when folks with lots of resources figure out they can't get the outcome they want it comes down to two things...Time and treasure...how long can we draw out the decision, keep things as they are, and how much money can we make the other side spend. All perfectly legal.....

Speaking of…did bomar get his date pushed back again? Lol

 

[mtnkid85]

I can appreciate that, it certainly brings a fairly technical aspect to access. I completely agree hunters will need to be more informed and careful if they use corners for access, but I do think it can be done respectfully and lawfully. They would certainly want to find the corner before relying on it for an early morning hunt.

If we can first get to a point where there is a definitive legal answer to the corner crossing issue, I could see a some of the conservation orgs and a few of us regular folk pitching in for an extensive surveying job and getting lots of corners located!

 

[Bighorner]

If we can first get to a point where there is a definitive legal answer to the corner crossing issue, I could see a some of the conservation orgs and a few of us regular folk pitching in for an extensive surveying job and getting lots of corners located!

Certainly. There is a lot to land corners and a lot of variables, but a good place to start is to look at the BLM plat for your state, township &range. That way you can atleast see how old the survey is. 1880's good luck, 1970 might find something, 1993 you have a pretty good chance. Typically there are only corners at corners of the sections and the mid points along each of the 4 sides.

Here's a good place to get your toes wet if you are curious about BLM plats.

Home - BLM GLO Records

Home - BLM GLO Records

 

[cnelk]

I’m sure many of you know that every corner doesn’t have a pin.
They can be miles away. Or should I say…. Corners away.

 

[Bobbyboe]

My take, if this isnt resolved by fall, a train of guys need to corner cross at the exact same spot! Push the issue and force action either way. If 5 different groups corner cross and hunt the public sections something will give….