Would you buy this scope?

[Speaks]

This is something that always confuses me. I know that legal light is theoretically set at a specific time, but my experience has always been that it can really be a bit earlier or later. At a certain point, even if it is technically legal light, it still isn’t safe to shoot. It just seems to me that if it comes down to something as fine as “can see on 2.5x but can’t see on 6x”, a hunter probably shouldn’t be shooting. Not judging, just an observation.


____________________
“Keep on keepin’ on…”

Yea we just used to kind of assume "legal" was safe to see. Once we checked times and followed it strictly we were starting and leaving with LOTs of light left. Enough that low light scopes became irrelevant. Depends on what your state does though.

 

[N2TRKYS]

It's for sure an eyesight or "personal" issue with you specifically, which is fine.

I can say that just myself personally, have seen at least 100 hunters, with experience levels from "professional" to "rank beginner", having zero issues making kills with that reticle from ground squirrels to moose and from 10 yards to past 1,00 yards.

Not an issue with me specifically, either. The folks that I have shown it too haven’t liked it either. If they would fix that reticle, it would be good. However, the SWFAs are available, so there’s no reason for me to fool with the Mavens any longer.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Prototypes for “testing”.

Would it be fair to say?:
That if test scopes arrive in fall, there is probably a few months of testing involved.
If version 1 passes and needs no changes then there is a production que and shipping from overseas still.
Long story short folks probably shouldn't expect to be able to buy this until next spring/summer at the earliest?

Might fend off some "are we there yet" questions from the passengers in the bus.

 

[Okie_Poke]

Would it be fair to say?:
That if test scopes arrive in fall, there is probably a few months of testing involved.
If version 1 passes and needs no changes then there is a production que and shipping from overseas still.
Long story short folks probably shouldn't expect to be able to buy this until next spring/summer at the earliest?

Might fend off some "are we there yet" questions from the passengers in the bus.

I am definitely inferring from his answer that we’ll be lucky to see them for sale before end of year and probably not until 2026.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

I am definitely inferring from his answer that we’ll be lucky to see them for sale before end of year and probably not until 2026.

The realities of getting a production run of scopes (I suspect) in addition to testing in my head absolutely pushes it into 2026 and probably at least until spring/summer at the earliest. I could be wrong though and don't want to misspeak but if I'm sorta on the mark it would probably be useful for folks to understand not to bother asking about buying one anytime soon. What we can hope to look forward to in the remainder of 2025 is ideally testing results and details.

 

[IrkedCitizen]

That's probably a safe bet

 

[RockAndSage]

The realities of getting a production run of scopes (I suspect) in addition to testing in my head absolutely pushes it into 2026 and probably at least until spring/summer at the earliest. I could be wrong though and don't want to misspeak but if I'm sorta on the mark it would probably be useful for folks to understand not to bother asking about buying one anytime soon. What we can hope to look forward to in the remainder of 2025 is ideally testing results and details.

Given the rigors of the drop testing, and the iterative improvements needed in fixing design fails, the testing and back-and-forth with the designers is something that should be given plenty of time. I'd far rather have an exceptionally reliable scope 12-18 months from now, than go through the frustration and disappointment of realizing something wasn't done right. Especially if that was realized the hard way in the field.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

Given the rigors of the drop testing, and the iterative improvements needed in fixing design fails, the testing and back-and-forth with the designers is something that should be given plenty of time. I'd far rather have an exceptionally reliable scope 12-18 months from now, than go through the frustration and disappointment of realizing something wasn't done right. Especially if that was realized the hard way in the field.

Certainly. My comments started because someone asked if they'd also be for sale this fall (when the prototypes are due in fall).

I tried to layout what I viewed as a best case scenario with the caveat that version 1 passed testing and didn't require design tweaks. In that best case scenario I suggested folks probably shouldn't inquire if they can buy something sooner than spring/summer next year.

I could be wrong but the point was temper expectation on how soon these will be commercially available, it'll likely be a while.

FWIW I am sorta expecting the prototypes won't need iterative testing. LOW does know how to build a robust scope if that is the design basis they are given. It is the fact robustness isn't the primary goal to other brands and they don't build off that foundation necessarily. Being they were approached with robustness in mind I am optimistic.

 

[RockAndSage]

Certainly. My comments started because someone asked if they'd also be for sale this fall (when the prototypes are due in fall).

I tried to layout what I viewed as a best case scenario with the caveat that version 1 passed testing and didn't require design tweaks. In that best case scenario I suggested folks probably shouldn't inquire if they can buy something sooner than spring/summer next year.

I could be wrong but the point was temper expectation on how soon these will be commercially available, it'll likely be a while.

FWIW I am sorta expecting the prototypes won't need iterative testing. LOW does know how to build a robust scope if that is the design basis they are given. It is the fact robustness isn't the primary goal to other brands and they don't build off that foundation necessarily. Being they were approached with robustness in mind I am optimistic.

We're actually agreeing with each other - what I wrote was in support of what you were saying.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

We're actually agreeing with each other - what I wrote was in support of what you were saying.

Correct, that is why I started with certainly. I mainly was clarifying I suspect the prototypes won't need iterations for durability. Always can be proven wrong though.

 

[JCMCUBIC]

"Trust but verify..."

 

[Balderdash]

I guess I don't understand the "need" for going down to 2.5X with the Maven SHR MIL? I killed 7 whitetails last year, two of which were under 50 yards in the hard woods/swamps of Northern Minnesota, both standing/unsupported kills.

I also killed two whitetails at first light, when light conditions were so low that bare eyes could barely make out the animal, and two whitetails at last light when light conditions were so low that bare eyes could barely make out the animal as well.

I've found that leaving the scope on 6-8X and leaving "zoom" alone is the most effective way to hunt, no matter if it's 600 yards across a canyon or 30 yards in the woods.

I hunted with various 6X's for so long back in the day that most of my variables stay there almost all the time. I did crank an LRTS to 10x for a 575 yd shot at a cow elk, but that was mostly to confirm it wasn't one of the spikes it was mingling wit while it was still 650+ yds out. Could've made the shot with a 6X no problem. While 6x is not as ideal as a scope that goes down lower for closer shots, I've also shot a few critters up close in heavy cover with a 6x.

I haven't had any issues with the RS 1.2 on 2.5X, but I don't generally carry one while hunting heavy timber.

 

[nm.otter]

I hunted with various 6X's for so long back in the day that most of my variables stay there almost all the time.

I have a 20-year old Simmons 3-12x that pretty much lives in that range as well. Nice enough duplex, but a Gen2 SWFA 6x would be soooo nice to have while I wait...

Edit: is nice to have.

 

[Soless]

65 Pages! I heard about this in the podcast and had to check this out. I would have interest if the reticle was good. @Ryan Avery @Formidilosus, can you show what the reticle would look like?

 

[100percent]

Hush! Hush!

 

[Dobermann]

65 Pages! I heard about this in the podcast and had to check this out. I would have interest if the reticle was good. @Ryan Avery @Formidilosus, can you show what the reticle would look like?

This has been asked for before. No doubt they'll post it when they're ready to.

In the meantime, we know that it's a simplified THLR reticle found on the Minox ZP5. There was a fair bit of discussion about it on one of the S2H podcasts a few months back. But your best bet for having a sense of what it might be like will be to track down Form's review and Q&A threads about the ZP5 - in one of those, he makes a mark-up of what a simplified version might look like.

 

[nm.otter]

your best bet for having a sense of what it might be like will be to track down Form's review and Q&A threads about the ZP5 - in one of those, he makes a mark-up of what a simplified version might look like.

Some discussion here.

 

[RockAndSage]

@Formidilosus , any news on the performance of these scopes over the summer?

 

[Formidilosus]

@Formidilosus , any news on the performance of these scopes over the summer?

Don’t have any yet. Japan works on their own timeline. It’s looks like realistically we should have a few to hunt with this fall.

 

[Formidilosus]

Small update to the scopes.

It looks like everything over the original specs from Japan- size, weight (very small), and power range, IQ, etc. are all going to be a bit better than originally thought.