Would you be interested in a custom mountain long range rifle?

[HellsCanyon]

Things are heating up here at HCA and we HOPE to have our first few models built by October sometime...the custom gun business is all about "hurry up and wait!" so that's where we are at right now unfortunately!

We have parts and plans being developed to have a rifle built off a custom action, weighing in at 6.5-7 lbs without scope/rings, chambered in either a 7 WSM, 300 Norma, or 300 RUM (other calibers available in the future) with a fanatical muzzle break to reduce recoil like a factory 30-06 (or a barrel cap for those of you who eat glass and chew metal shavings and like to be kicked in the shoulder by a mule ), 26" barrels, <.5MOA 5 shot guarantee that won't 'walk' on you after heating up and shooting 10+ rounds in a row to still let you have fun at the range without having to wait for your barrel to cool down. With proper load development we are averaging 1/4 MOA groups with other builds but won't guarantee that... too many shooter variables

What would this rifle be worth to you and just how interested would you be? The 300 Norma and 300 RUM are very close ballistically, but the Norma should be able to run factory BDL mag lengths and still launch 210 Bergers at ~3200 fps.

Curious to hear your guys' thoughts on the builds... and really hoping to have something to showcase here in another 4-6 weeks!

Mike

 

[Matt Cashell]

You bet that sounds interesting, Mike!

6.5-284 and 7 mag would be good chamberings also.

That is some accuracy guarantee too.

 

[Travis Bertrand]

What style of action is it based on?

 

[fillthefreezer]

sounds sweet. can i just get one of the muzzle breaks for my tikka?

 

[HellsCanyon]

sounds sweet. can i just get one of the muzzle breaks for my tikka?

Ha you bet! We have been shooting a couple 9.5-10 lb 300 RUM's with these brakes and they kick less than my 280 ackley... I wouldn't hesitate to shoot 50+ rounds prone from a bipod any day of the week. You don't want to be off to the side of one though!

They are based off the Rem 700 action.

Matt, 7 Mag reamer is on the books! We will be offering a 243 (AI possibly) 260, 6.5-284, 308, and 300 win mag calibers in the future as well. Will also plan to have a big 338 heavy hitter but haven't decided if we want to go standard Lapua or try to be a little different...

Mike

 

[Matt Cashell]

Sounds good Mike.

On the .338, take a good look at the 338 RUM. It is right there with the Lapua, and brass is cheaper. 338 edge would be a good choice too with similar brass availability (300 RUM), but I like my brass properly headstamped, and it is nice to have a factory chambering as well.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Exactly... different strokes for different folks and we're trying to cover both the shooters just getting into the sport and may not have all their reloading gear, as well as those who shoot a few thousand rounds down range every year!

Now here is the kicker for a lot of you guys... the sticker price! Only factory thing on these rifles will be the bottom metal (factory BDL for hunting models with a detachable mag system for the 338). We'll be anywhere from $3k-$3500 for a rifle ready to shoot including test target, load data, and an Impact Databook... NOW let me hear your thoughts! lol

Mike

 

[RosinBag]

If you can get 210 bergers shooting 3200 FPS and maintain 1/2 MOA groups, you better higher some employees. That combo ballistically is as good as you could want in a hunting cartridge. Super flat trajectory, bucks the wind as good as any with the high b/c and will carry enormous energy at the longest of ranges.

 

[Matt Cashell]

Now here is the kicker for a lot of you guys... the sticker price! Only factory thing on these rifles will be the bottom metal (factory BDL for hunting models with a detachable mag system for the 338). We'll be anywhere from $3k-$3500 for a rifle ready to shoot including test target, load data, and an Impact Databook... NOW let me hear your thoughts! lol

Mike

There is a lot of competition at that price point. Now if you are getting the results you posted, it is certainly a good price, and you will sell plenty, but if you really want to ship them out the door, find a way to get sub-2500. You will then get some of the Kimber/Cooper crowd.

 

[JG358]

Exactly... different strokes for different folks and we're trying to cover both the shooters just getting into the sport and may not have all their reloading gear, as well as those who shoot a few thousand rounds down range every year!

Now here is the kicker for a lot of you guys... the sticker price! Only factory thing on these rifles will be the bottom metal (factory BDL for hunting models with a detachable mag system for the 338). We'll be anywhere from $3k-$3500 for a rifle ready to shoot including test target, load data, and an Impact Databook... NOW let me hear your thoughts! lol

Mike

Doenst sound bad... Id like to know component specifics and your definition of "ready to shoot".

By based off a Remington 700 action, do you mean built on a 700 action or built on an action based off the 700?

 

[HellsCanyon]

If you can get 210 bergers shooting 3200 FPS and maintain 1/2 MOA groups, you better higher some employees. That combo ballistically is as good as you could want in a hunting cartridge. Super flat trajectory, bucks the wind as good as any with the high b/c and will carry enormous energy at the longest of ranges.

The biggest thing here is getting those bullets to stabilize at that speed quickly. Almost all of the 300 RUM's we shoot will hold 3/4MOA at 100 yards, but at distance will shoot 1/2MOA or better (300+ yards). Might have to throw a 300 yard test target in there to verify that we are meeting the 1/2 MOA guarantee... But yes those speeds are realistic, and I think once word gets out they will sell...

As far as $2500 price point, that just won't happen... I've seen what kind of rifles we can build off of trued 700's and there really is no reason we won't be competing in terms of quality and accuracy with GAP, Jerry Joplin, Surgeon, Travis Reddel, and other big name builders out there. We can always drop our prices, but I wouldn't feel right about raising them unless cost of materials goes up. CA sells their rifles for $4500 and we will be building better rifles then them...

The actions are a custom action that is designed and based off the Rem 700 footprint.

Mike

 

[HellsCanyon]

Forgot to address the "Ready to shoot" claim.

Every rifle will leave with a primerless/powderless test round that we have worked up for it that you can work your loads after.
We will include a databook with your specifications of the rifle, and every shot that we've fired through it will be recorded and written down.
We will include a test target with either 5 or 10 round group, and whatever load data we have worked up.
Our rifles will include most likely a 1-piece picatinny 20MOA scope base but no rings. Though I have rings in stock and would gladly sell you some!

Mike

 

[JG358]

The actions are a custom action that is designed and based off the Rem 700 footprint.

Mike

Just re-read your first post... don't know how That didn't click The first time.

Are you going to offer different length actions? You making your own barrels and stocks? Finish options?

 

[HellsCanyon]

No we will be using manners and McMillan stocks. We have some custom actions that should be here next week that we are going to be testing. Barrels will start as a rock creek blank but we are having them custom contoured. Got some cool options that we are waiting to test on the barrels to see if they'll shoot like all our rock barrels have! Little somethin to do with carbon and graphite...

Actions will be different lengths similar to the short and long actions.

Mike

 

[actionshooter]

Who do you have lined up to do the builds?

 

[HellsCanyon]

Al Seaman, my hunting partner and best buddy is the former CFO at seekins precision and has built countless rifles. He's extremely good and gifted. I'll also be doing a lot of the work.

Mike

 

[FURMAN]

I am very interested in something that is 1/4 moa capable and weighs less than 7 lbs. Probably a 300 RUM or Norma the 210s would be nice. What is your experience with the 230s? Keep us updated. I could see a rifle like this replacing my lightweight 7SAUM and my sendero 7WSM.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Just to clarify we are only going to be guaranteeing 1/2 MOA (some of the rifles we have are certainly 1/4MOA capable, but that is on our best shooting days with very finely tuned hand loads). I'm certainly not good enough to hold 1/4MOA POA every day but there are guys out there that can.
We are trying something new (to us) with these initial barrel setups that will keep our weight down and our accuracy where we want it hopefully. Once we are done with the two rifles we will see if we want to run the barrel setups or go with something lighter and traditional or spiral flutes.

I have not run the 230 Berger hybrids but I have played with the ballistic calculationss and the higher speed of the 210s will either trump or make null the higher BC of the 230s. Or at least they will be VERY similar depending on what speeds you run them at.

Just founds some load data for a 27" barrel running Retumbo and 210 bergers at 3140fps. I would like to hit 3150-3200 fps with a 26" barrel but we'll see how that goes. You're talking around a 15-16" drop difference between 3200 and 3100 fps. But when you're droping 200+ inches from a 100 yard zero, that's not much! 1800 ft lbs of energy at 1K yards will kill an elk just as well as 1671 ft lbs... And that 100 fps only results in 3" difference wind drift with a full value 10 mph wind...

Mike

 

[HellsCanyon]

TTT and Post edited above... wasn't happy with my short answer earlier using my phone!

Mike

 

[RosinBag]

For anyone who thinks they are going to get a 1/4 MOA rifle in .30 caliber don't hold your breath. That is a outside to outside edge group of .550, which is a clover leaf jagged hole. There are not many rifles in the world in .30 caliber with the best of shooters who can do that. Maybe one five shot group here and there by the best, but not repeatedly. For a company to even guarantee 1/2 MOA is asking for trouble, as the company may get 1/2 MOA, but send that out the door to a customer who can't shoot well, they will eventually want their money back.

If building a long range gun, I would be more interested in how the load work up performs at 800 or 1000 yards. Some guns will shoot 1/2 MOA at 100 and 2 MOA at 1000. If the gun is only tested for MOA at 100, you wont know what it does at long range to make sure the bullet performs the same.

Not knocking Mike and his plan, but the numbers referenced I have shot hundreds of 210 bergers at dozens of seating depths with about four different powders and the results for me have shown poor stability after 3100 fps. That is not to say it can't be done, just my personal shooting data. I shoot a custom .300 Jarrett which is a solid gun / cartridge combo and they performed best at about 3025 to 3050 with wide variances after 3100.

I hope they get what they are shooting for the newer materials they will be trying.