Wolves.... 2.4 miles from my house in E. WA.

[Logan T]

Don't feel too bad littlebuf, I can take some heat off you, not only because I agree with most people on here, but I'm a rancher... and apparently we don't like any game animals!

Anyway we look at it, wolves are here to stay. Am I happy wolves were put here, not at all. They have killed a number of our beef calves (and no we were never reimbursed by the govt.), and I've seen how they kill game animals...not pretty. Even worse, as Darin Cooper said, they have not only dwindled the elk numbers, but have hurt the economy of Montana and other states. Perfect example is the numbers Coop posted. I've seen herds of 200 elk in the spring after they had calved with fewer than 30 calves. Unlike magpie stated, I've been on what used to be the late season elk hunt down by Gardiner, and people are not sitting in their truck shooting out of the window. Being a once in a lifetime tag, many people hunted harder than ever for a bull, and in worse conditions than usual since the seasons ran in January back when MT used to get snow, and lots of it. And many people still never killed an elk on that hunt. Not only has that late season been shut down, but now we can't even go hunt that area with a general OTC tag anymore. And it pain's me to say this, as I grew up in a school where Gardiner was our biggest rivals, but Gardiner's economy got hurt very badly by the wolves, just like many other places, and I know people who lost businesses because of the reintroduction of the wolves.

"Awesome", cute and cuddly, and everything else greenies say about them is completely backwards and false. I do actually have video of a black wolf running at me when I was on foot, in the wide open. When I was facing it, it would sit down, when I would turn around and walk away, it would lope after me. I'd stop, it would stop again and so on, till I got back to a 4 wheeler and it was only 30 yards from me. That was not "Awesome", and I wish I would have had a gun. Because apparently, being a rancher, we hate pretty much all game animals.

 

[magpie]

Don't feel too bad littlebuf, I can take some heat off you, not only because I agree with most people on here, but I'm a rancher... and apparently we don't like any game animals!

Anyway we look at it, wolves are here to stay. Am I happy wolves were put here, not at all. They have killed a number of our beef calves (and no we were never reimbursed by the govt.), and I've seen how they kill game animals...not pretty. Even worse, as Darin Cooper said, they have not only dwindled the elk numbers, but have hurt the economy of Montana and other states. Perfect example is the numbers Coop posted. I've seen herds of 200 elk in the spring after they had calved with fewer than 30 calves. Unlike magpie stated, I've been on what used to be the late season elk hunt down by Gardiner, and people are not sitting in their truck shooting out of the window. Being a once in a lifetime tag, many people hunted harder than ever for a bull, and in worse conditions than usual since the seasons ran in January back when MT used to get snow, and lots of it. And many people still never killed an elk on that hunt. Not only has that late season been shut down, but now we can't even go hunt that area with a general OTC tag anymore. And it pain's me to say this, as I grew up in a school where Gardiner was our biggest rivals, but Gardiner's economy got hurt very badly by the wolves, just like many other places, and I know people who lost businesses because of the reintroduction of the wolves.

"Awesome", cute and cuddly, and everything else greenies say about them is completely backwards and false. I do actually have video of a black wolf running at me when I was on foot, in the wide open. When I was facing it, it would sit down, when I would turn around and walk away, it would lope after me. I'd stop, it would stop again and so on, till I got back to a 4 wheeler and it was only 30 yards from me. That was not "Awesome", and I wish I would have had a gun. Because apparently, being a rancher, we hate pretty much all game animals.

So Logan you are saying that as a hunter you cannot like wolves and think they are awesome? That because you like wolves you are automatically what you call a "greenie"? Hahaha

I can post article after article if you want me to regarding ranchers complaining of wildlife. Just ask me and shall receive. Very few ranchers are more of a friend to hunters then the big bad wolf. FACT.

I bet you guys hate automobiles too, since they kill hundreds of thousands of animals every year too with no discretion! Trucks? Cars? I've had enough of the gov't pushing these dang automobiles down our throats! I say S S S!!!!!! 'Merica!

 

[HellsCanyon]

So Logan you are saying that as a hunter you cannot like wolves and think they are awesome? That because you like wolves you are automatically what you call a "greenie"? Hahaha

I can post article after article if you want me to regarding ranchers complaining of wildlife. Just ask me and shall receive. Very few ranchers are more of a friend to hunters then the big bad wolf. FACT.

I bet you guys hate automobiles too, since they kill hundreds of thousands of animals every year too with no discretion! Trucks? Cars? I've had enough of the gov't pushing these dang automobiles down our throats! I say S S S!!!!!! 'Merica!

Your FACT is wrong... plain n simple. Having managed WA state's grazing leases in about a 3rd of E. WA I've known and worked with more ranchers than most have, not to mention knowing a lot of ranch kids I met while studying rangeland ecology at the University of Idaho... they know that there are enough AUMs on the range to provide for both livestock and wildlife.

Mike

 

[magpie]

Your FACT is wrong... plain n simple. Having managed WA state's grazing leases in about a 3rd of E. WA I've known and worked with more ranchers than most have, not to mention knowing a lot of ranch kids I met while studying rangeland ecology at the University of Idaho... they know that there are enough AUMs on the range to provide for both livestock and wildlife.

Mike

But not Wolves? And Mike I am not wrong in what I said. I happen to be friends with some of the largest ranchers in the United States. Also know very well and my father also works for multiple grazing ass. that the size would be comparable to all of Washington state...

And I never said there wasn't ranchers that supported wildlife and wildlife projects. FACT.

 

[littlebuf]

if you type FACT in real big letters your always right. FACT


just seeing if it worked, by gum it does!!

 

[HellsCanyon]

Trevor your inbox is full...

 

[Mike7]

I'm so confused...I thought from that post above that there was a rash of purposeful elk slaughters going on at the hands of illegal motorists. But then when I look at the numbers from Idaho Fish and Game studies, the primary mortality for female elk was from wolves, lions, and humans...and in units with more wolves, wolves were easily the leading cause of mortality. What the heck.

 

[littlebuf]

Trevor your inbox is full...

ill fix it, hold on

 

[littlebuf]

I'm so confused...I thought from that post above that there was a rash of purposeful elk slaughters going on at the hands of illegal motorists. But then when I look at the numbers from Idaho Fish and Game studies, the primary mortality for female elk was from wolves, lions, and humans...and in units with more wolves, wolves were easily the leading cause of mortality. What the heck.

did you remember to type FACT in real big letters?

 

[Mike7]

did you remember to type FACT in real big letters?

Lol. No, but I will try to remember that this should be an important part of any future arguments I might make. The sense of humor on this site is definitely second to none.

 

[HellsCanyon]

But not Wolves? And Mike I am not wrong in what I said. I happen to be friends with some of the largest ranchers in the United States. Also know very well and my father also works for multiple grazing ass. that the size would be comparable to all of Washington state...

And I never said there wasn't ranchers that supported wildlife and wildlife projects. FACT.

AUM's don't apply to wolves so no there is not enough for wolves. Proper livestock grazing actually increases browse and feed for wildlife if done properly. Every rancher I dealt with in WA realizes that their range carrying capacity is based off of a combination of wildlife and livestock AUMs and they are fine with it. One thing they are not fine with is wolves and their predation on their livestock.

The ranch where this new wolf pack is taking place has some tremendous deer and elk populations, and the owners won't let anybody but immediate family hunt.

You know some of the biggest ranchers in the nation? Where exactly are these ranchers located? Arid areas by chance? Do they even have to deal with wolves?

Mike

 

[Logan T]

So Logan you are saying that as a hunter you cannot like wolves and think they are awesome? That because you like wolves you are automatically what you call a "greenie"? Hahaha

I can post article after article if you want me to regarding ranchers complaining of wildlife. Just ask me and shall receive. Very few ranchers are more of a friend to hunters then the big bad wolf. FACT.

I bet you guys hate automobiles too, since they kill hundreds of thousands of animals every year too with no discretion! Trucks? Cars? I've had enough of the gov't pushing these dang automobiles down our throats! I say S S S!!!!!! 'Merica!

First point- Did I say that?? No. I'm sure somewhere, some hunter likes wolves, like you apparently. However, I don't care for them one bit, for the reasons already stated by me and many here. And that "fact" of yours, like HellsCanyon said, is wrong. Sure, some ranchers may complain, but that doesn't mean they hate them or want them disappear, and just maybe they have reason to complain??... like too many elk or deer or antelope are in a given region. If I'm not mistaken, you said "maybe there were too many elk" in an earlier post. One example... The milk river in MT. Too many deer, blue tongue hit and now look at the populations. Also, I wonder where a lot of the elk and deer and antelope winter at.... Many if not most come down into private land and can destroy fences, feed for the cattle in the winter, and spread disease among their livestock- which I would say happens more often now days than livestock spreading disease to wildlife (example: brucellosis coming from the elk, not bison, which happened to occur when the wolves started migrating out of the park coincidentally... hmm) - and costs money and can ruin entire businesses. Seems to me like the wildlife got along a lot better with the ranchers than they have with the wolves.

I am not complaining one bit about the overpopulation of the deer though, even though the whitetail deer in the area look like herds of sheep. I actually like that, just like all ranchers I know, like having wildlife around. I like that fact, not because I personally go hunting for them, but because of your "fact" that is actually fiction..... We don't mind having the insane number of deer, because in the past 6 years, people have come and taken over 400 whitetail deer off the ranch I call home, with none of it being block management.... The FWP has the paperwork to prove it. Many of the people are 1st time hunters, very old hunters, people with disabilities, or people who are not physically able to enjoy the basis of this website which is hard core back country hunting. I think that is helping out a lot of hunters. And being both a die hard back country hunter and a rancher, I would much rather see those people taking the deer and elk than wolves killing out of sport. I've seen a lot of wolves, but I've never had one help me out on any part of any hunt.

It seems this thread has gone away from the intended subject matter of this website, talking so much about ranching. I may live on one, but I live to hunt in the back country and thats where I do 99.9 percent of my hunting. Lets talk about that rather than how you negatively view a subject or group of people that in the big picture don't negatively influence anything to do with hunting.

 

[magpie]

AUM's don't apply to wolves so no there is not enough for wolves. Proper livestock grazing actually increases browse and feed for wildlife if done properly. Every rancher I dealt with in WA realizes that their range carrying capacity is based off of a combination of wildlife and livestock AUMs and they are fine with it. One thing they are not fine with is wolves and their predation on their livestock.

The ranch where this new wolf pack is taking place has some tremendous deer and elk populations, and the owners won't let anybody but immediate family hunt.

You know some of the biggest ranchers in the nation? Where exactly are these ranchers located? Arid areas by chance? Do they even have to deal with wolves?

Mike

Ummmmm oK? Proper livestock grazing. Isn't that an oxymoron ?

Ranches in CO WY ID MT and these ranchers and they have been dealing with the wolves and grizzly bears since day one. There I answered that, so I'm still trying to figure out what the point of your post was??? A rancher that will not let anyone hunt his land? Ok whats new there?

It seems like the guys most angry by these is because its cutting into their pocket book. They already pay next to nothing to graze all over public land. A few losses here and there should be expected. Suck it up buttercup!

 

[HellsCanyon]

So.... you don't agree with livestock grazing, think all ranchers hate deer n elk, love wolves, and think that the feds have our best interests in mind with wolf management? Yeah, that's why I'm done beating this dead horse...

Mike

 

[littlebuf]

So.... you don't agree with livestock grazing, think all ranchers hate deer n elk, love wolves, and think that the feds have our best interests in mind with wolf management? Yeah, that's why I'm done beating this dead horse...

Mike

whats a matter mike. I mean that right there is how all real ranchers think. what do you know any way

 

[Jackelope]

Mike-
What was the rancher's opinion on the autopsy results? I know what was said, just curious if you've talked to the guy to see what he thought of the verdict on it.

 

[HellsCanyon]

Mike-
What was the rancher's opinion on the autopsy results? I know what was said, just curious if you've talked to the guy to see what he thought of the verdict on it.

Wolf kill no doubt. There were signs of a struggle for 20-30 yards, wolf tracks, bite wounds to the neck and the calf was ripped out and eaten just like they do to cow elk... We have a few cougars around the area but they rarely rarely attack livestock, especially in the sage country where this attack occurred. Plus there were no cat tracks or scratches on the mother cow.

Mike

 

[Chad E]

Just curious how many wolf kills the rancher has seen to make his no doubt determination?

Wolf kill no doubt. There were signs of a struggle for 20-30 yards, wolf tracks, bite wounds to the neck and the calf was ripped out and eaten just like they do to cow elk... We have a few cougars around the area but they rarely rarely attack livestock, especially in the sage country where this attack occurred. Plus there were no cat tracks or scratches on the mother cow.

Mike

 

[HOT ROD]

Who is this magpie any way.

 

[Ryan Avery]

I've seen a lot of elk kills. If it's somewhat fresh it's not hard to determine what killed it.