Wolf Depredation In Grand County, CO
- Thread starter COHunter33
- Start date
You're talking with that rancher now.
Why was the conversation not part of the public meeting?
We were short on time and there were a lot of people with questions just as valid as mine. I challenged them on how information is disseminated and why there are contradictions between public-facing information and rancher-facing information and why every step they take is reactive to wolves showing up vs being in front and at least trying to build goodwill. It was a question inserted into another conversation, and I probably should have waited until later to bring it up.
The meeting was supposed to run from 1-2:30, I didn't leave until after 4:00PM.
We have been asking for answers for a long time, and only been given incomplete information in it's place.
Not a single person I know is afraid of a wolf on an individual level, which is what I have heard a lot from others not living in wolf country. We are scared of the consequences of doing what we are told is legal or having to do something that is in an undefined gray area because they are dragging their feet on a definition. There is not a lot of faith that the state would 'give the tie to the runner', as CPW stated they would yesterday.
ReaptheHeat
WKR
"Zac Swennes said he was surprised at the large number of people attending the meeting."A good recap of the CPW meeting in Kremmling yesterday
Ag Producers meet with CPW officials in Kremmling about wolves
By Shannon Lukens. Picture: Grand County Commissioner Merrit Linke speaks to CPW officers and the crowd in the Exhibit Hall at the Grand County Fairgrounds in Kremmling Tuesday. Local ag producers, mostly from Grand and Jacksonwww.steamboatradio.com
Hahahaha. Yeah they put wolves in the WORST spot in the entire state they could think of. People are pissed.
bayoublaster7527
WKR
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2017
- Messages
- 717
Don’t blame you for not having a lot of faith. CPW employees are mostly great folks trying to do their best in a tough situation however they are under the highest level of scrutiny from Jared Polis and Marlon Reis. And those two will probably never rule in favor of ranchers.
It's only the worst if, like us, you value hunting and ranching. But if you're Marlon Reis, and you despise hunting and ranching, then it's one of the best places to start.
justin davis
WKR
Exactly. All part of their plan. Destroy ranching and hunting. Because they are anti meat fruit loops
taskswap
WKR
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2021
- Messages
- 537
I don't think they all are anti-meat "fruit loops." IMO CPW is being pretty misleading about this whole thing being something they were forced to do, and even acting surprised about how it all turned out. I recall 6-7 years ago seeing literature and even presentations at places like parks actively talking about how important wolves are and more or less promoting the idea. There were brochures. There were coloring sheets for kids.
This didn't happen instantly. I think a lot of voters who could have been swayed one way or another got a lot of "education" promoting the benefits while trivializing or totally ignoring the downsides. And it wasn't just CPW. I distinctly recall a presentation at the Moraine Park visitor's center in RMNP around 2017 or so that was focused on parents and kids extolling the "virtues" of wolves. That's a National Park, and it was USFW putting the material out. And let's not forget, Trump was President then.
IMO this problem didn't start at the ballot box, and I'm sure I'll get hate for this, but this wasn't a "those Denver libtards should have wolves put in their parks" kind of issue. This started many years ago, and voters who had been better educated might have gone differently. It was actually a fairly close vote. 50.91% to 49.09%. That's all it takes. It was swing voters. People who do not identify as die-hard liberals or conservatives. They don't wake up and think "f those ranchers" all through breakfast. They think about whether the milk has expired. Ranchers don't matter to them at all. Not negative thoughts. ZERO thoughts. The first time they think about them is when they open that ballot and see prop 114 and dimly recall that brochure their kid liked so heck, why not say yes?
Folks, we need to get our act together, and I do NOT mean by more angry responses or legal attacks. You know what the folks who did this did? They were nice. They acted helpful. They educated. They made brochures and coloring sheets for kids and spoke to parents about how wolves control coyotes (coyotes ARE in Denver and do attack dogs and this point did get people nodding.) They presented their side, and while it was still totally one-sided, at no time did I feel like as a hunter I was the target of an attack or negative comment. They never even said things like ranchers and hunters were "misinformed" or any of the other back-handed ways folks talk others down. They weren't discussed at all. The only mention of ranchers I remember was a distinct comment that they'd be compensated for any losses. It was presented very calmly and levelly and sounded "good." Nobody ever mentioned what happened to the Lolo Elk Herd even though I bet everybody here knows.
And they won hearts and minds. Sometimes the person who presents the material in the nicest, most helpful manner wins whether the information is true or not. It's how we're wired as humans. We want to trust experts because we don't have time to do everything ourselves. If there's only one expert in the room, guess who wins?
Swing votes matter. With all due respect, anybody who stands up and says "I vote Republican, and I will always vote Republican" is basically saying "my vote doesn't count" because there's going to be somebody on the other side doing the same thing. Swing votes decide elections and what passes in the polls. And you don't win swing votes by insulting them or calling them "fruit loops" - every time you insult somebody on the other side, you solidify their position and prove to them that they were right about what they thought about you all along.
We need education. We need outreach. We need to listen and be understanding even when we totally disagree with the other side. We need to be patient but also persistent and in it for the long game. We need brochures and coloring sheets showing how natural the process of hunting is for our species and how it helps maintain what balance we have left, and we don't need them in CPW offices or sporting goods stores, we need them at town fairs and in local restaurants. We need hunting and ranching to be fun and celebrated and appreciated even by people who don't do it. And we need to do it now. Because the other way isn't working, and the "other side" has already figured this out years ago.
I challenge you all to re-read this thread, then tell me this. If the issue was land rights, but every post here was saying land rights should NOT matter and they should be taken away - would what you read here inform you or offend you? Would you be open to hearing more, or pushed away? How would you vote on the next issue in the polls? Would you care at all about any of us? Or go back to your cheerios?
This didn't happen instantly. I think a lot of voters who could have been swayed one way or another got a lot of "education" promoting the benefits while trivializing or totally ignoring the downsides. And it wasn't just CPW. I distinctly recall a presentation at the Moraine Park visitor's center in RMNP around 2017 or so that was focused on parents and kids extolling the "virtues" of wolves. That's a National Park, and it was USFW putting the material out. And let's not forget, Trump was President then.
IMO this problem didn't start at the ballot box, and I'm sure I'll get hate for this, but this wasn't a "those Denver libtards should have wolves put in their parks" kind of issue. This started many years ago, and voters who had been better educated might have gone differently. It was actually a fairly close vote. 50.91% to 49.09%. That's all it takes. It was swing voters. People who do not identify as die-hard liberals or conservatives. They don't wake up and think "f those ranchers" all through breakfast. They think about whether the milk has expired. Ranchers don't matter to them at all. Not negative thoughts. ZERO thoughts. The first time they think about them is when they open that ballot and see prop 114 and dimly recall that brochure their kid liked so heck, why not say yes?
Folks, we need to get our act together, and I do NOT mean by more angry responses or legal attacks. You know what the folks who did this did? They were nice. They acted helpful. They educated. They made brochures and coloring sheets for kids and spoke to parents about how wolves control coyotes (coyotes ARE in Denver and do attack dogs and this point did get people nodding.) They presented their side, and while it was still totally one-sided, at no time did I feel like as a hunter I was the target of an attack or negative comment. They never even said things like ranchers and hunters were "misinformed" or any of the other back-handed ways folks talk others down. They weren't discussed at all. The only mention of ranchers I remember was a distinct comment that they'd be compensated for any losses. It was presented very calmly and levelly and sounded "good." Nobody ever mentioned what happened to the Lolo Elk Herd even though I bet everybody here knows.
And they won hearts and minds. Sometimes the person who presents the material in the nicest, most helpful manner wins whether the information is true or not. It's how we're wired as humans. We want to trust experts because we don't have time to do everything ourselves. If there's only one expert in the room, guess who wins?
Swing votes matter. With all due respect, anybody who stands up and says "I vote Republican, and I will always vote Republican" is basically saying "my vote doesn't count" because there's going to be somebody on the other side doing the same thing. Swing votes decide elections and what passes in the polls. And you don't win swing votes by insulting them or calling them "fruit loops" - every time you insult somebody on the other side, you solidify their position and prove to them that they were right about what they thought about you all along.
We need education. We need outreach. We need to listen and be understanding even when we totally disagree with the other side. We need to be patient but also persistent and in it for the long game. We need brochures and coloring sheets showing how natural the process of hunting is for our species and how it helps maintain what balance we have left, and we don't need them in CPW offices or sporting goods stores, we need them at town fairs and in local restaurants. We need hunting and ranching to be fun and celebrated and appreciated even by people who don't do it. And we need to do it now. Because the other way isn't working, and the "other side" has already figured this out years ago.
I challenge you all to re-read this thread, then tell me this. If the issue was land rights, but every post here was saying land rights should NOT matter and they should be taken away - would what you read here inform you or offend you? Would you be open to hearing more, or pushed away? How would you vote on the next issue in the polls? Would you care at all about any of us? Or go back to your cheerios?
5MilesBack
"DADDY"
Did anyone with even half a brain expect anything different than what is going on right now? This is what happens when a problem is intentionally introduced into an equation. It just creates even more problems and division. The left has perfected this approach in every possible aspect of our way of life. It's all intentional, and at some point soon, every man for himself.
Coveyleader
WKR
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2013
- Messages
- 1,931
Call me jaded, but every time I see a DOW employee wearing one of those stupid cowboy hats, I just want to ...............
ReaptheHeat
WKR
That's exactly it.
Checklist
- one of, if not harshest wintering areas in the state
-under target elk and deer numbers
-The spot they placed them was surrounded by landslide NO to Prop 114
-area completed dominated by livestock producers
I’d recommend everyone interested in wolves (and the outdoors) to read this book.
It’s excellent on all levels.
You will read about how wolves live and how wolves kill and when they kill.
It’s not just about Alaska, as Frank Glaser actually comes down to Walden CO in the 1940s and poisons wolves for the govt.
It’s excellent on all levels.
You will read about how wolves live and how wolves kill and when they kill.
It’s not just about Alaska, as Frank Glaser actually comes down to Walden CO in the 1940s and poisons wolves for the govt.
Flyjunky
WKR
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2020
- Messages
- 1,430
That’s the way the entire country has been going. No blowback or accountability on anything, no matter how blatant or wrong the decision.
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