Why you should not take equity out or dump your 401 K to take super expensive hunts.

[Marbles]

What is an instagram type experience?

It is doing something so others can see you do it.

And how are you finding out the why someone else is hunting for? Do you ask them? Do they tell you?

They tell me, as actions and behavior speak louder than words.

And why does someone care why someone else is hunting?

Why do you care if someone cares why someone else is hunting?

Because your question undercuts its own foundation, I will bother answering it if you can provide a thoughtful answer to mine.

Before you say you don't care, asking the question is evidence you do.

 

[FAAFO]

It is doing something so others can see you do it.

They tell me, as actions and behavior speak louder than words.

Why do you care if someone cares why someone else is hunting?

Because your question undercuts its own foundation, I will bother answering it if you can provide a thoughtful answer to mine.

Before you say you don't care, asking the question is evidence you do.

Hahaha I was thinking why do I care why someone is whining about why others hunt?

To my recollection I’ve never had anyone tell specifically why they hunt. I also can’t tell why someone does just because they have an app that posts pictures for the world to see.

 

[FAAFO]

Sheep are the cool animal to hunt, plenty of other animals can be hunted in the exact same country. Any time I hear the word "slam" I get the impression someone is focusing on the "accomplishment" and not the experience.

That must be a bummer feeling to be in sheep country and have to hunt a different species because of money. Kinda like going to a strip club I suppose

We have a lot of clients that one of their reasons they booked a mountain goat hunt is they can’t afford sheep. Getting the goat doesn’t squash the desire for a sheep. Especially when you let them hold one of your 12 year old rams

 

[z987k]

^^^ I think it is stating the obvious here, but most people should only put into a 401K to get the full employer match and then put the rest of their money in other individual accounts that are available. I would be putting it somewhere that it could be easily accessed "penalty free" to bridge a gap from retirement until 59-1/2 or for a rainy day. I always thought that was just common sense.

Some people are better off having it "locked up" until they are 59-1/2 though...

You can't put enough money into a 401k to retire before 59.5 anyways. Anyone that is maxing their 401k (and hopefully backdoor roth plus mega backdoor is available) with the hopes of retiring before 59.5 is also funding a separate post tax account.
That person should take the money from the post tax account to avoid tax penalties.

 

[Marbles]

That must be a bummer feeling to be in sheep country and have to hunt a different species because of money. Kinda like going to a strip club I suppose

We have a lot of clients that one of their reasons they booked a mountain goat hunt is they can’t afford sheep. Getting the goat doesn’t squash the desire for a sheep. Especially when you let them hold one of your 12 year old rams

Interesting, I go into sheep country for ptarmigan, bears, goats, deer, and marmot, and just to be there. I have had a sheep tag in my pocket a few times too, but that was just in case I saw a legal one. To my thinking, it must be a bummer to have sheep be the only reason you enjoy that country, or to feel a need for a set of horns.

Even seeing an awesome set of horns doesn't thrill me. Hearing stories about crappy weather, close calls, and grit does, weather the goal was a summit, a sheep, or just a trip to check a transmitter that went sideways.

 

[FAAFO]

You can't put enough money into a 401k to retire before 59.5 anyways. Anyone that is maxing their 401k (and hopefully backdoor roth plus mega backdoor is available) with the hopes of retiring before 59.5 is also funding a separate post tax account.
That person should take the money from the post tax account to avoid tax penalties.

Very sound advice Zach!

 

[180ls1]

That person should take the money from the post tax account to avoid tax penalties.

It depends. There is a very real case to be made for still contributing to qualified accounts even if you have to pay the penalties.

 

[FAAFO]

Interesting, I go into sheep country for ptarmigan, bears, goats, deer, and marmot, and just to be there. I have had a sheep tag in my pocket a few times too, but that was just in case I saw a legal one. To my thinking, it must be a bummer to have sheep be the only reason you enjoy that country, or to feel a need for a set of horns.

Even seeing an awesome set of horns doesn't thrill me. Hearing stories about crappy weather, close calls, and grit does, weather the goal was a summit, a sheep, or just a trip to check a transmitter that went sideways.

How do the marmot taste? Or do you just skin them?

You should stop lying to yourself. Your example you gave says you have a sheep tag in your pocket. This thread is based on guys not having such without a huge financial risk.

So you hunt for more than the horns? Good deal, that’s what everyone does and says. Everyone likes to exaggerate, tell the tales of bad weather etc. it’s all the same.

If a big set of horns or antlers doesn’t get you worked up you might want go call ben and be on the hunting collective. You can share your feelings and tell how the hunt is so much more than just killing.

I’m not a sheep nut, I only hunt them in August because there’s nothing else worth hunting in August. Could go shoot blacktails up high in velvet but that’s cheating and too easy. Like to hunt them in the thick brush on their terms. Velvet sucks. Bear hunts are subpar at best.

I hope everyone gets to do their hunts they want to in their lifetime. If you can’t afford it it’s no one’s fault but your own. And if you really want it you will make it happen.

Good luck out there. Wheels up Monday!

 

[Marbles]

How do the marmot taste? Or do you just skin them?

You should stop lying to yourself. Your example you gave says you have a sheep tag in your pocket. This thread is based on guys not having such without a huge financial risk.

So you hunt for more than the horns? Good deal, that’s what everyone does and says. Everyone likes to exaggerate, tell the tales of bad weather etc. it’s all the same.

If a big set of horns or antlers doesn’t get you worked up you might want go call ben and be on the hunting collective. You can share your feelings and tell how the hunt is so much more than just killing.

I’m not a sheep nut, I only hunt them in August because there’s nothing else worth hunting in August. Could go shoot blacktails up high in velvet but that’s cheating and too easy. Like to hunt them in the thick brush on their terms. Velvet sucks. Bear hunts are subpar at best.

I hope everyone gets to do their hunts they want to in their lifetime. If you can’t afford it it’s no one’s fault but your own. And if you really want it you will make it happen.

Good luck out there. Wheels up Monday!

I'm sorry you stack so much meaning into money and being able to afford a hunt.

As you point out this thread is about "huge financial risk" any you clearly don't meet that category as you just pop up because there is nothing better to kill in August. So odd that you point it out.

As for lying to myself, well you don't know me well enough for me to defend myself from that charge from the likes of you. It is clear from your response that we are not the same type of people, and that is fine, unless you care about my opinion.

 

[Billinsd]

I retired fully at 60 but we also made time for ourselves during our work lives. Lots of hunting and travel. (For example, I completed the grand slam before I retired.) Plus, I never took work with me. When I was away, I was not to be bothered absent an emergency. Lee Iococa once said that if a man can’t take 6 weeks off during the year then he is not doing work right.

I’m 61 and plan to retire in 1.5 years. I’ve done a lot of fantastic hunts and trips as a teenager, but didn’t hunt during my college years, I was too busy. I started back up again and the only thing limiting me was having kids late. I got a desert ram in California, lucky draw and the total hunt was less than $5,000 about 15 years ago. I got a 350 bull elk for less than $10,000 a few years ago. I’ve lived a really fun life so far, it’s too bad I can’t keep going forever and I’m slowing down. Financially I’m very well off. My daughter is going to medical school and my son college soon and I have enough for them and still have a nice retirement.

 

[Billinsd]

Ok so if taking my retirement out to hunt Sheep is a bad idea what about moving to places where I can hunt as a resident ?

It depends. What would it cost you to move to places that you could hunt as a resident as far as a job, wages. I’ve struggled with that thought myself over the decades and never done it, because I would have hundreds of thousands less now than I do and figured it wouldn’t be worth it to me. I’m a very calculating guy, who try’s to stay balanced. I’ve chosen to hunt less and have a lot more money than live someplace with great hunting and make a whole lot less in my career. At 61 I don’t regret it, but it was a hard decision. Life is full of compromises.

 

[FAAFO]

I'm sorry you stack so much meaning into money and being able to afford a hunt.

As you point out this thread is about "huge financial risk" any you clearly don't meet that category as you just pop up because there is nothing better to kill in August. So odd that you point it out.

As for lying to myself, well you don't know me well enough for me to defend myself from that charge from the likes of you. It is clear from your response that we are not the same type of people, and that is fine, unless you care about my opinion.

What do you do with the marmots you shoot?

You climb up to target them, what do you do with them?

Have you killed a sheep? I’m guessing so?

 

[Clint.smith]

I am not a financial planner, but I have been following these discussions regularly.

A friend of mine is a booking agent, his top end hunts are about $20,000. Mostly he books common European species for reasonable prices. Trophy expectations are reasonable and there is a lot of success. He does not focus on high fenced areas, and has some very interesting species.

He has also hunted all over the world mostly on his own without an outfitter where possible.

He and I were in deer camp together in Hungary this week. We had this discussion, with 3 other hunters in camp and everyone said the same thing. It is a stupid endeavor.

There are other experiences you can have that are just as challenging and cost percentage points of what sheep hunts cost.

New Zelanad on your own or outfitted for Tahr and Chamois.

Europe Chamois, mouflon, capercaillie and black grouse hunts.

Spanish Ibex, Caucasian Tur, Tajikistan Ibex, Krygiz ibex among other options.

the problem with hunts priced in this tier is the same problem as drawing a tag that takes a lifetime to draw. The odds are very good that the hunt will not go the way you want.

On the first day at 0800 am of a very pricy aoudad free range hunt in West Texas I was offered a 32 inch ram, and I turned him down because I wanted to hunt more. 3 days later on the last day of the hunt I shot a 25 inch ram. Only ram we got onto, that wasn't 800 yards away running the other direction.

I had 9 or 10 points for Wyoming antelope and finally drew a good tag. Worst draught in 20 years, my father and uncle insisted on going and my father gave all of us covid. Then I gave it to my wife and kids. Was a rough couple of weeks. I shot a 12 inch buck because my father wanted to go home. He lied to me and told me he wasn't sick. So I picked him up in Cheyenne and then wasted the tag on a dink.

I know lots of people that have been on 2 or 3 sheep hunts for Dallas, and multiple sheep hunts for Stones and bighorns.

Personally know outfitters that have told me they are about 30% on their stone tags in BC. In the old days they would be able to use the same tag on multiple hunters taking them for long walks. Not finding a big enough ram.

Think this couldn't happen to you?

Don't romanticize it. It is a transaction between you and the outfitter.

If you are worth millions of dollars and $300,000 is nothing to you then do it. I don't personally feel as though you could do it for $300,000.

If you are not worth millions of dollars and blowing $300,000 resets your financial clock to zero for some heads on the walls and a couple weeks worth of memories think twice about it.

We aren't talking about 2024 prices. We are talking about 2028 prices if you are booking today.

Currently Mexican deserts are $45,000 to $75,000.
New Mexican deserts on the Amanda's are $75,000
Texas deserts are $95,000 to 120,000
Alberta and BC bighorns and Californias are $45,000-85,000
Dalls are $28,000 in Alaska to $45,000 in the NWT with the select outfitters
Stones are $70,000-120,000

So Dall average $35,000 today and $50,000 in 5 years
Stones average $80,000 today and $120,000 in fiver years
Desert average $55,000 in Mexico and $90,000 in the USA and in 5 years $120,000
Bighorns average $60,000 and in five years $80,000

Booked today if you got todays prices you'd be into $230,000 if you were lucky.
Most likely a $290,000 investment in some dead sheep on the wall no one will care about but you.

However saying that if it doesn't hurt you at all do it.

If you want romance and punishment of a tough trip go to Paris and join the Foreign Legion. You'll last a few months and get kicked out, and know true romance.

Worth the memories, spend the money

 

[FAAFO]

Worth the memories, spend the money

Agree 100%

 

[Marbles]

What do you do with the marmots you shoot?

You climb up to target them, what do you do with them?

Eat them and take the fur for my wife to make stuff with.

Have you killed a sheep? I’m guessing so?

No, I have not made the investment in resources to get one.

My money is on your resume as a hunter being at least 10 times more impressive than mine. Your earlier post already made your opinion of me clear. I'm answering questions to be polite, but I really don't see how I personally play into the theme of this thread or the point of the questions.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

To be fair, If I had used a Heloc @2.75% to Book the Moose, Dall, Caribou hunt in NWT back in 2019 for $29,000 I had the contract for but was chicken shit, I would have been 10's of thousands ahead. You hunt your glorified Euro turkey and the other cheap species nobody cares about.

 

[Grassymike]

As a self employed carpenter who now builds cabinets almost exclusively I am not in the realm of being able to afford guided Sheep hunts. I have hunted Sheep and was lucky enough to grow up in the Yukon. I have a Dall Ram that I shot when I was 19. I now live in Alberta and hunt Bighorn Sheep and was finally able to get a Ram last year. Now I am considering moving to B.C. or back to the Yukon to get a Stone. Not sure if this will happen but the dream lives on... I am really excited to be back in the mountains with my partner this year helping him to get a Ram.

 

[TheWhitetailNut]

That must be a bummer feeling to be in sheep country and have to hunt a different species because of money. Kinda like going to a strip club I suppose

We have a lot of clients that one of their reasons they booked a mountain goat hunt is they can’t afford sheep. Getting the goat doesn’t squash the desire for a sheep. Especially when you let them hold one of your 12 year old rams

No Guff. I went on a goat hunt and have had sheep on the brain since. Goats too though.

 

[waspocrew]

The price of sheep hunts are only going up - you have to be able to pay for them somehow.

My dad passed away a couple of years ago at age 65. He never even had the chance to retire and enjoy what he had been saving. Sheep hunting has always been something I've wanted to do, but never drew tags when I was much younger (currently 36). Hunting had really taken the back seat for the past 10 years due to medical training, so in a few states I basically accrued points as there was no way I'd be able to do a sheep hunt while in med school or residency. Now that I'm on the other side of training, my time and finances are much less limited and the desire to experience a sheep hunt is even stronger. I'm doing my best to be smart with the inheritance I received from my dad, but I did use a portion of it to book a dall hunt in the NWT for 2026.

Life's short. If sheep hunting is something you've always wanted to do, figure out the way to accomplish it.

 

[schmalzy]

The price of sheep hunts are only going up - you have to be able to pay for them somehow.

My dad passed away a couple of years ago at age 65. He never even had the chance to retire and enjoy what he had been saving. Sheep hunting has always been something I've wanted to do, but never drew tags when I was much younger (currently 36). Hunting had really taken the back seat for the past 10 years due to medical training, so in a few states I basically accrued points as there was no way I'd be able to do a sheep hunt while in med school or residency. Now that I'm on the other side of training, my time and finances are much less limited and the desire to experience a sheep hunt is even stronger. I'm doing my best to be smart with the inheritance I received from my dad, but I did use a portion of it to book a dall hunt in the NWT for 2026.

Life's short. If sheep hunting is something you've always wanted to do, figure out the way to accomplish it.

I’m excited just reading this. Go all in on the prep and crush it with your Dad in spirit. Truly excited for you.


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