Why the NR HATE?? Let's fix it!

[fatlander]

There’s a lot to unpack through this thread as to why NR feel like they deserve a little more of the pie or at least a seat at the table to discuss tag allocations.

I’m going to highlight Wyoming.

HALF of Wyoming’s Game and Fish Budget is supported through nonresident license sales. Factoring in PR money, well over HALF of Wyomings budget is paid for by NR.

The “I pay taxes here” argument holds no water in almost every single state as it pertains to game and fish management. The overwhelming majority of state game and fish agencies are completely self sustaining. They don’t get general fund money from the state because none of Fish and Game’s revenues can be ear marked for anything other than fish and wildlife management. The ultimate reason for that is states can’t get PR money if any of the fish and game revenue goes back in the state coffers.

A non resident buying a special elk license in Wyoming will contribute more directly to Wyoming elk management in one year than a resident who only buys a general elk license for well over a decade.

https://wgfd.wyo.gov/WGFD/media/content/PDF/About%20Us/Commission/WGFD-Revenue-Fact-Sheet_FINAL.pdf

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[Wyo_hntr]

Yet nobody is making them apply.

I don't complain that NM requires me to buy a hunting license to apply. Or that they charge 1600 dollars for an Ibex tag (residents pay 100). Why? Because it's their state, their rules. Hunting there is a privilege. If I want to hunt there, I either pay up or don't. Complaining is pointless and petty.

They complain because they feel entitled. End of story.

The real take away from this thread is that NR's despise residents.

 

[Happy Antelope]

I've always been curious why the Commerce Clause in the Constitution doesn't apply here? It's actually the point of the whole Clause is so one state isn't tariffing another state or its citizens. Genuine question there's any attorneys in here can explain it to me that would be cool.

 

[fatlander]

Yet nobody is making them apply.

I don't complain that NM requires me to buy a hunting license to apply. Or that they charge 1600 dollars for an Ibex tag. Why? Because it's their state, their rules. Hunting there is a privilege. If I want to hunt there, I either pay up or don't.

They complain because they feel entitled. End of story.

What some folks are failing to see here, is that everything in this world is dynamic. Especially in the Information Age that we live in now.

Before the internet, getting that data I used for that analysis would have been more trouble than it was worth. I would have to have written a letter to ask for it. Hopefully it would have been sent back to me. Or driven/flown from the east coast to Wyoming to retrieve it.

I googled it in 10 seconds.

30 years ago NR would have the suspicion that they were getting absolutely railroaded as far as paying the lions share of the management to have to fight for scraps, but no way to prove it or organize against it. The internet has and will continue to change everything.

There will come a point that NR won’t keep footing the bill for R to enjoy the resource.


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[Wyo_hntr]

There will come a point that NR won’t keep footing the bill for R to enjoy the resource.


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Nobody is making anyone apply.

It still baffles me the amount of hubris someone has to have in order to demand they deserve something from another state.

I'm not up in arms that South Dakota doesn't even offer a bighorn sheep tag opportunity for Non-residents. Their state, their rules. It's super simple.

 

[fatlander]

Nobody is making anyone apply.

It still baffles me the amount of hubris someone has to have in order to demand they deserve something from another state.

I never said anyone was making them apply.

I said the there will come a day that the NR stops footing the bill for the R to enjoy the resource.

I guess I should have further explained that the trend of continue cutting NR tag allocation will ultimately lead to that. Who’s going to keep applying for tags when there aren’t any? Who’s going to foot that bill then? Continuing to increase the price, while decreasing supply isn’t sustainable. You have to remember that this is the government we’re talking about here. Savvy business sense isn’t there.


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[Archer86]

What some folks are failing to see here, is that everything in this world is dynamic. Especially in the Information Age that we live in now.

Before the internet, getting that data I used for that analysis would have been more trouble than it was worth. I would have to have written a letter to ask for it. Hopefully it would have been sent back to me. Or driven/flown from the east coast to Wyoming to retrieve it.

I googled it in 10 seconds.

30 years ago NR would have the suspicion that they were getting absolutely railroaded as far as paying the lions share of the management to have to fight for scraps, but no way to prove it or organize against it. The internet has and will continue to change everything.

There will come a point that NR won’t keep footing the bill for R to enjoy the resource.


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The problem what that theory is the greedy nr would have to stop buying the product and that won't happen there are 180 thousand point buyer in wyoming alone even if you cut that number in half we would still have the same issue.

Wyoming has the nr hooked and it's set deep.

What you are missing for the special tag is that is self inflicted by the nr hunters that think that will give them a advantage to get a tag

perfect example of that is look how many nr wrote in against the outfitter draw then look how many wrote in against the special it was significantly less and more wrote in favor of the price increase

Also wyoming didn't cut tags nr will see a nice 1000 extra elk tags this year

 

[fatlander]

The problem what that theory is the greedy nr would have to stop buying the product and that won't happen there are 180 thousand point buyer in wyoming alone even if you cut that number in half we would still have the same issue.

Wyoming has the nr hooked and it's set deep.

What you are missing for the special tag is that is self inflicted by the nr hunters that think that will give them a advantage to get a tag

perfect example of that is look how many nr wrote in against the outfitter draw then look how many wrote in against the special it was significantly less and more wrote in favor of the price increase

Also wyoming didn't cut tags nr will see a nice 1000 extra elk tags this year

Time will tell. I think I’m right and you think you are too. That’s the beauty of our country, at least for the time being. We’re allowed to disagree.

Expecting for a group of people to keep your lights on while giving them zero voice in the process isn’t sustainable.

No one in Wyoming is forcing nonresidents to apply but everyone is counting on it.


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[Shō[t]gun]

I've always been curious why the Commerce Clause in the Constitution doesn't apply here? It's actually the point of the whole Clause is so one state isn't tariffing another state or its citizens. Genuine question there's any attorneys in here can explain it to me that would be cool.

The argument is mostly that recreation isn’t commerce. Haven’t read this in a while but there’s been quite a few fights that fizzled out without setting a wide precedent.

https://scholarship.law.marquette.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1055&context=mulr

 

[Wyo_hntr]

I never said anyone was making them apply.

I said the there will come a day that the NR stops footing the bill for the R to enjoy the resource.

I guess I should have further explained that the trend of continue cutting NR tag allocation will ultimately lead to that. Who’s going to keep applying for tags when there aren’t any? Who’s going to foot that bill then? Continuing to increase the price, while decreasing supply isn’t sustainable. You have to remember that this is the government we’re talking about here. Savvy business sense isn’t there.


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Hunting out of state is a privilege. If you don't want to, don't.

If you do, prioritize and make it happen.

 

[BBob]

I've always been curious why the Commerce Clause in the Constitution doesn't apply here? It's actually the point of the whole Clause is so one state isn't tariffing another state or its citizens. Genuine question there's any attorneys in here can explain it to me that would be cool.

It’s been a really long time so I don’t remember the details as to “why” anymore but it’s been litigated more than once. You can try to find the court case that NM guide George Taulman brought against Arizona when it came to opposing the AZ 90/10 res non-res split. He lost.

 

[Jethro]

There will come a point that NR won’t keep footing the bill for R to enjoy the resource.

When I send money to apply out of state, it is for me to enjoy the resource, not the residents.

 

[mtwarden]

No one in Wyoming is forcing nonresidents to apply but everyone is counting on it.


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If a game agency starts to reach a critical point in loss revenue from license sales because the price is too high- they simply lower it.

Not sure if that would ever happen, but in the realm of possibilities.

 

[fatlander]

If a game agency starts to reach a critical point in loss revenue from license sales because the price is too high- they simply lower it.

Not sure if that would ever happen, but in the realm of possibilities.

As you mentioned, that doesn’t happen.

I’ll keep my money on prices across the board steadily increasing, and NR tag availability steadily decreasing.

I love hunting your state, and Wyoming. Lord willing, I’ll continue to do it. I have plans to be a resident one day.

In the meantime, I know what it’s like from the outside looking in. It just seems frivolous to expect to maintain the status quo with the above trends I mentioned.


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[CorbLand]

As you mentioned, that doesn’t happen.

I’ll keep my money on prices across the board steadily increasing, and NR tag availability steadily decreasing.

I love hunting your state, and Wyoming. Lord willing, I’ll continue to do it. I have plans to be a resident one day.

In the meantime, I know what it’s like from the outside looking in. It just seems frivolous to expect to maintain the status quo with the above trends I mentioned.


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If they are able to decrease supply and raise pricing, that means that demand is exceeding supply.

If that demand drops, they will drop pricing.

The problem is that there is demand for over a hundred years in most states. Demand is not going to decrease in any of our lifetime.

 

[S.Clancy]

Devil's Advocate. I bet there is a negative relationship between state agency funding and resource health so how are we saying that more $$$ in agency budgets is a good thing?

 

[sndmn11]

In the meantime, I know what it’s like from the outside looking in. It just seems frivolous to expect to maintain the status quo with the above trends I mentioned.


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You also know what it is like on the inside looking out, everyone does.

 

[AKBC]

Wow. A bunch of entitled rich guys scheming for reallocation of resident tags. I think resident commoners, new hunters, and young people should be prioritized. Every NR tag in these fully prescribed states takes away from resident allocation.

 

[sndmn11]

Devil's Advocate. I bet there is a negative relationship between state agency funding and resource health so how are we saying that more $$$ in agency budgets is a good thing?

Bingo!

I read folks complaining about CO's deer and elk herds, and "it was better back when...". Maybe back when CPW had to efficiently use what they had?

 

[fatlander]

You also know what it is like on the inside looking out, everyone does.

Non residents don’t keep the state fish and game’s lights on in my state, yet they’re able to apply to draw the 1 nonresident elk tag. Residents outside of a 3 county area get to apply for a pool of 3.

Y’all should all kiss the feet of us in the commonwealth for allowing you a chance at 25% of our tags. We’re selfless kings.


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