Why is there no Long Range Hunting archery section ?

[Shane]

Because arrows fly slower than the speed of sound.

 

[Wilderlife]

Sound is one of many variables, and it's a variable that can't be controlled in a consistent manner. The way some people lean on the sound argument is ridiculous. Makes you wonder how people with longbows shooting 150fps manage to kill anything?

 

[Wellsdw]

"Long range archery/what happened/tracking dog needed" would be a better forum. One stop shop for contributors

 

[5MilesBack]

The idea behind starting this thread was more to see where people’s heads are at on the topic.

The first year I picked up a bow I shot a bull at 71 yards, center-punched him through the back of the ribs quartering away. I never had any doubts where that arrow was hitting. I've shot a lot of elk since then but haven't taken a shot that long on a big game animal since. But on the other hand, of all the animals I've shot with a bow, my average shot distance is right around 47 yards. A lot of bowhunters would say that's long range.

I've had one.....what I would call "bad shot" on an animal, and it was the closest shot I've taken......17 yards on a big bull. In that same situation I would have been better off with a longer shot where I would have had better perspective on where I was aiming.

The bottom line is.......would I take an even longer shot? Potentially. But I've passed on a few shots, longer and shorter, just because it didn't feel right for whatever reason. The situation makes a difference.

 

[Grassymike]

For me it boils down to the essence of Bowhunting is developing the skill and patience to get close to big game animals. Others work on developing shooting skill to shoot farther away so they don't have to get as close. We would all be better overall hunters if we worked harder at developing all of the skills more. Spend more time building your weakest skill and go hunt. I think it is important to only take shots within your skill level . If you have put in the time, who am I to say a shot should not be taken beyond X distance.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Longest first shot on a live bull for me was 68 yds, 45°, quartering away. He turned slightly away to leave as I released. Arrow entered just in front of his hind quarter and buried to the fletches, taking out the liver, one lung and diaphragm on the way. 80 yd recovery.

My longest follow up shot on a bull was 82 yds. The first shot hit near the bottom of the heart but didn’t get good penetration. The follow up shot took him down.

These days, I don’t bother practicing under 60 yds except when I’m tuning. All of my practice is from 70-110 yds at a full size 2D elk target. I stopped shooting dots and I stopped worrying about group size as my POA varies slightly with each shot on a target like that as there’s no “bullseye”. I’m judging my 5 arrow “groups” based on the percentage that are in the vitals, not the spread. Practicing at longer distance reveals flaws in form and equipment that are almost imperceptible at 40yds and under.

The last few years I’ve really been focused on shooting at long distance in the wind whenever possible , up to about 20mph. The biggest lesson I have learned with those sessions is that wind is not as big a factor as I assumed. I place streamers of flagging every 20 yds or so down range and have noticed that with trees and brush affecting the wind at various distances along the arrows flight path, the wind direction is not constant at all. There are spots with a true crosswind, spots where there are air current “eddies” around trees and sometimes the wind is blowing in a completely different direction at the target 100 yds away from me. The biggest effect of wind is actually on your bow itself as you try to hold it steady against it. Lesson : if you’re going to shoot in the wind, get a wind block so your bow arm doesn’t get buffeted. Would I ever take a first shot at 100yd in 20mph gusty wind at an elk ? Hell no. But will I take a follow up shot on an already hit bull at that distance? 100%

Do I miss the vitals sometimes at these long distances? Yes. But through practice I have been able to get proficient at hitting center mass 100% of the time at 100+ yds. And 70-80% are in the vitals, depending on the day. My POA in general has changed and my POA for those long follow up shots is different than where I aim for a close up slam dunk shot.

So what’s the point of all that long range practice- to shoot elk as far away as possible ? No. It’s to be very proficient in follow up shots, which is invaluable IMHO. If I already have an arrow in an animal, good or bad, I’m taking every opportunity for a follow up shot out to 120 and I’m shooting into the elk goes down or leaves my sight and I don’t care if that follow up is a liver shot, heart shot, gut shot, or even a back leg. More holes is more holes to bleed out of at that point and aids in tracking and recovery. My point is, don’t build your whole mindset around what your “effective range” is on your first shot. Make your effective range as long as you’re capable of and then use good judgement on what shots you actually take. There are plenty of shots inside 40 that I’ll pass on if it’s not right and there are shots significantly farther that I’ll take if all conditions are right.

 

[dirtknap]

Archery is about getting close....as close as possible. I count my times sub 30 yds.....I will shoot further too, though. My goal is to get sub 50 everytime. Compound bows are easy to master. Trad bows take much more skill and dedication.

Listen to podcasts and read archery hunting stories. It wont be long before you hear, "he jumped the string". That is a good reason alone to avoid long shots. I will only take long shots on animals that are relaxed or have no clue im there (no calling).
As archers, we should be bragging about how close we get. Not how far u shot with a Compound.

 

[Wilderlife]

Animals jump the string inside 30 metres all the time though too, right? Is 30 metres too far? I've had pigs jump the string inside 25 metres, but because they aren't as tall as whitetail the outcome isn't as problematic.

Rifle hunters who don't like long range hunting use the same arguments about getting close. Inside 150 metres is pretty close for rifle shots, and I see people all the time say "hunting is about getting close for me" as a way to dismiss shooting further.

Again, I like getting close. I hunt trad a lot and am incapable of making accurate shots I feel good about past even 25 metres. I'm just playing devil's advocate.

 

[Beendare]

I mentioned in previous posts that I have had animals react to my shot before. If by “troll thread” you mean I’m trying to start arguments for the sake of drama, you would be wrong. I’m surprised you would say that based on my comments. Maybe because I’m playing devils advocate a bit you think it’s trolling . Hunting culture and ethics are evolving, or maybe devolving depending on one’s perspective. I’m just looking for insight into how the hunting brotherhood views the current state of things, nothing more.

OK, not a troll...my bad.....my comment was more about my pet peeve of people trying to dictate to others on what they should or should not do.

I really need to just ignore threads like this.

 

[HunterGatherer]

OK, not a troll...my bad.....my comment was more about my pet peeve of people trying to dictate to others on what they should or should not do.

I really need to just ignore threads like this.

All good . I know exactly where you’re coming from as I have the same pet peeve

 

[sclb745]

I have shot multiple 690+ outdoor target rounds (could never crack 700), Vegas 300s, and NFAA 60x rounds, and rarely do I practice outdoors closer than 50 yards, but I'll never take a shot at a whitetail beyond 40. I have a two pin sight set to 27 and 37 yards. If I have to move my sight, I'm not taking a shot at a whitetail. Just my own personal rule. I hunt in the woods and most of my shots are inside that distance anyhow. I don't bowhunt over fields and deer are just too skittish. I'm 100% confident in my ability and my bows to take a shot much further, and I have when the conditions were perfect, but I respect the animal too much for the inevitable variables to risk wounding one.

 

[Beendare]

I'm going to plunk this here; A couple buddies just got back from a hunt where You literally HAVE to shoot long range All shots were at a 45 deg plus downward angle- from up on a cliff. The one guy is a top tournament class archer.

15 shots on game at 75y plus.....resulted in one kill and one hit in the leg- the rest misses. My buddy told me one of the 78y shots read 28y on his angle compensating RF.

Anyone tells you they think long range archery shots are easy is full of BS

 

[bcmntgoathunter.]

Long range archery 70-110 takes time and dedication.. im pulling 84# with a brand new mathewes bow and shoot hundred and hundreds of shots wind and angles are very very critical

 

[HunterGatherer]

I'm going to plunk this here; A couple buddies just got back from a hunt where You literally HAVE to shoot long range All shots were at a 45 deg plus downward angle- from up on a cliff. The one guy is a top tournament class archer.

15 shots on game at 75y plus.....resulted in one kill and one hit in the leg- the rest misses. My buddy told me one of the 78y shots read 28y on his angle compensating RF.

Anyone tells you they think long range archery shots are easy is full of BS

I’ve ever heard anyone say long range shots are easy. Not many guys practice at those steep, steep angles long range. 78 yds on a 45° is 55yds though. Must’ve been more like a 75° angle on that one. Really tough to keep good form for those cliff shots.

 

[Beendare]

I’ve ever heard anyone say long range shots are easy. Not many guys practice at those steep, steep angles long range. 78 yds on a 45° is 55yds though. Must’ve been more like a 75° angle on that one. Really tough to keep good form for those cliff shots.

Yeah, it was probably steeper than a 45deg angle, I just used that number for illustration.

It was crazy steep when you have to have another guy hold your belt or pack while you are leaning over the cliff. Tough shooting for sure.

 

[nphunter]

Reading all of the people who have posted about animals jumping the string as a reason for not taking long shots really shows how few have real world experience shooting animals with a bow and arrow.

I have found that elk and deer react much more at close range than longer distances with archery equipment. I’ve had both deer and elk jump or spin at 40 and closer. I’ve never had a deer or elk react to the shot at 50+. I’ve lost several animals over the years and the majority have been under 30 yards. Not only do animals react more at closer range but we have less time to focus on the shot and it’s much easier to rush a shot. It’s also harder to check for low hanging branches, think about wind, shot angle or pay attention to your bubble and footing when an elk comes running in screaming at 15 yards. I’ve put more than one arrow directly into a mature bulls shoulder because of this and so have many others I know.

I’ve also taken some (long range to some) archery shots on deer and elk and have never wounded an animal while doing so but have killed many. This year my bull was bedded below a cliff I was on, he had zero idea I was there and I was able to take the time to clear the rocks around my feet and make a nice flat spot to stand on the steep slope. I was also able to range multiple times to get a good range, consider the weather and focus on executing a good shot. All of these things resulted in a perfect shot and a bull that went less than 100 yards before dying.

I love shooting my bow at distance and very seldom shoot it less than 80 yards. I’m fortunate to have an area where I can shoot out to as far as I want at my house. I often shoot at 130 yards and shot well at that range. I also love hunting with my recurve and getting close to animals. I sat less than 30 yards from by buck this year for over 30 minutes before killing him. Even having that much time and being so close he took more than one arrow to kill due to feeling rushed when drawing back and the nerves and anxiety that comes from being that close to an animal thinking about all of the what if’s.

I love deer and elk, the last thing i want to do is wound one and I don’t take shots I’m not confident in taking. Sometimes I might pass a shot at 20 others I might take one at 80, it really comes down to circumstance and variables at the time. IMO situational awareness is just as important or even more important then proficiency.

This years buck.



For the sake of the conversation, I want to write down the process I went through on this years bull. I shot this bull at ___yrds (Number You think is too far and LR Archery), I knew the bull had no idea I was there, I knew I had time to range and make a good shot and exceute my process. I could have likely stalked closer to ___yrds (Number You think is acceptable) however instead of a bull that had no clue I was there I would have likely alerted him of my presence, even if not due to being on the same level as him I would have had to wait for him to stand and I would have had a quartered away shot. Waiting would have not only built anticipation, he also could have stood and immediately started moving, making me have to stop him. If I had to stop him I would feel rushed to make a good shot while he is standing still, this could have caused a questionable hit, I also wouldn't have had the birds eye view to watch and see where I hit and be able to see what the bull did after the shot.

So out of those two scenarios above, which is correct? Cutting my distance in half for a more questionable setup and shot, or taking a controlled, well-executed shot at twice the distance. Obviously, I feel I made the right choice and it's hard to argue with the results of that shot. I felt I could make a clean ethical shot from the spot I shot from and I was correct.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Yeah, it was probably steeper than a 45deg angle, I just used that number for illustration.

It was crazy steep when you have to have another guy hold your belt or pack while you are leaning over the cliff. Tough shooting for sure.

Yeah, crazy ! I remember one of the old bow hunting books where the guy had his buddy hold onto his belt on the edge of a cliff ( maybe it was Cam in the Steens ?…) . I thought “WOW that’s badass. I want to do stuff like that”. Now when I think about doing stuff like that, I remember I have kids at home .

Maybe the toughest part is that at steep angles, very little of the vitals are exposed. The scap, and spine are protecting so much of them. Kudos to whichever guy actually got one killed.

 

[HunterGatherer]

Reading all of the people who have posted about animals jumping the string as a reason for not taking long shots really shows how few have real world experience shooting animals with a bow and arrow.

I have found that elk and deer react much more at close range than longer distances with archery equipment. I’ve had both deer and elk jump or spin at 40 and closer. I’ve never had a deer or elk react to the shot at 50+. I’ve lost several animals over the years and the majority have been under 30 yards. Not only do animals react more at closer range but we have less time to focus on the shot and it’s much easier to rush a shot. It’s also harder to check for low hanging branches, think about wind, shot angle or pay attention to your bubble and footing when an elk comes running in screaming at 15 yards. I’ve put more than one arrow directly into a mature bulls shoulder because of this and so have many others I know.

I’ve also taken some (long range to some) archery shots on deer and elk and have never wounded an animal while doing so but have killed many. This year my bull was bedded below a cliff I was on, he had zero idea I was there and I was able to take the time to clear the rocks around my feet and make a nice flat spot to stand on the steep slope. I was also able to range multiple times to get a good range, consider the weather and focus on executing a good shot. All of these things resulted in a perfect shot and a bull that went less than 100 yards before dying.

I love shooting my bow at distance and very seldom shoot it less than 80 yards. I’m fortunate to have an area where I can shoot out to as far as I want at my house. I often shoot at 130 yards and shot well at that range. I also love hunting with my recurve and getting close to animals. I sat less than 30 yards from by buck this year for over 30 minutes before killing him. Even having that much time and being so close he took more than one arrow to kill due to feeling rushed when drawing back and the nerves and anxiety that comes from being that close to an animal thinking about all of the what if’s.

I love deer and elk, the last thing i want to do is wound one and I don’t take shots I’m not confident in taking. Sometimes I might pass a shot at 20 others I might take one at 80, it really comes down to circumstance and variables at the time. IMO situational awareness is just as important or even more important then proficiency.

This years buck.
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View attachment 957273

For the sake of the conversation, I want to write down the process I went through on this years bull. I shot this bull at ___yrds (Number You think is too far and LR Archery), I knew the bull had no idea I was there, I knew I had time to range and make a good shot and exceute my process. I could have likely stalked closer to ___yrds (Number You think is acceptable) however instead of a bull that had no clue I was there I would have likely alerted him of my presence, even if not due to being on the same level as him I would have had to wait for him to stand and I would have had a quartered away shot. Waiting would have not only built anticipation, he also could have stood and immediately started moving, making me have to stop him. If I had to stop him I would feel rushed to make a good shot while he is standing still, this could have caused a questionable hit, I also wouldn't have had the birds eye view to watch and see where I hit and be able to see what the bull did after the shot.

So out of those two scenarios above, which is correct? Cutting my distance in half for a more questionable setup and shot, or taking a controlled, well-executed shot at twice the distance. Obviously, I feel I made the right choice and it's hard to argue with the results of that shot. I felt I could make a clean ethical shot from the spot I shot from and I was correct.

View attachment 957271
View attachment 957272

You make some really good points. Really close up shots are way more likely to be rushed and cause, or force hurried decisions . I’ve come out of some of those encounters saying to myself “ WHY did I do THAT!?”. I just didn’t have enough time to think about it before the shot opp was lost.

Often the animal is alert and very prone to instinctive, reflexive actions. “Ducking the arrow” or “jumping the string” aren’t intentional movements by the animal because they hear your arrow flying towards them. They simply get startled and they drop down to load their legs for a fast move.

 

[KHNC]

Same reason why there isn't a 80# section of the forum? For every post saying it's a waste of time, unnecessary, no one can do it properly, etc, there is someone saying they train year-round and they handle it fine and they in fact do.

I don't shoot long range when bowhunting but I do in practice. I can shoot respectable groups at 100m just fine, but I won't hunt that far as I don't believe my broadhead tunes and flight are robust enough to hunt that far.

Having said that, I'm just an average bloke. When I look at someone like Josh Bowmar and see how strong he is, how much he practices, and how easily he handles his bow, it's absolutely within the realm of possibility that he would be able to shoot significantly better than me at that distance. The same can be said for Levi Morgan (as Beendare brought up). Levi would shoot groups at 80 metres that make my 40 metre groups look stupid.

So my point is, I've got no business telling someone like Levi Morgan or Josh Bowmar that they shouldn't shoot a long way when their capabilities far exceed that of most bowhunters.

To be fair, it would be fine if you told josh blowmar not to shoot that far at a critter.

 

[KHNC]

Maybe there is and we don't know it yet??

What exactly is "Alpha Bow Hunting" ?

An archery competition in Denver, created by Phil Mendoza. Extremely fun and high energy. I entered it 3 times. Won my division twice and placed 2nd the other time. It is no longer in operation. Longest shot was 55 yds typically.