Why does magnum movement matter for rifle accuracy?

[mustelid_master]

I've been thinking about this a lot and am hoping someone can answer it.

Magnum rifles are less accurate, partially because we shoot them less accurately, and partially because large magnum rifles move more during the shot. I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel. If the bullet has left the barrel, who cares how much rifle moves from an accuracy perspective, not a shot-spotting perspective. The movement caused by the change of center of mass from the firing pin coming forward would be similar or equivalent to that of a small centerfire rifle I imagine.

Where am I going wrong?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

In assuming that the majority of the recoil occurs after the bullet exits the muzzle.

Also, the firing pin moving forward does essentially nothing in changing the rifle’s center of gravity.

 

[Aussie Dan]

I always thought it was a combination of projectile dwell time in the barrel and the shooter anticipating the shot and flinching.

 

[Deere_Man]

Flinching, subconsciously anticipating the recoil affects the POI.

 

[K9kodi]

Recoil happens the moment the slug is separated from case I believe. It’s fractions of time between then and the exit of the barrel, less for shorter barrels and more for longer ones. I don’t believe i shoot my magnums less accurately then my non magnums, I am limited in some things however.
I don’t have the necessary freedom to shoot rapidly, I have to make sure I have the respected purchase on the rifle, intend to follow through w the shooting fundamentals a bit more. But i would not say im less accurate

 

[RME]

I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel.

I get what you're saying but the "vast majority" of movement isn't ALL of the movement and it's that movement that happens while the bullet is still in the barrel that's degrading accuracy.

To put it in perspective, with a 24" barrrel, the muzzle only has to move 0.007" to make a 1" change in impact at 100 yards. So that little extra torque as the bullet engages the rifling, that little anticipation of recoil, all those little things add up to make it increasingly difficult to hold the same level of accuracy as the amount of recoil goes up.

 

[Castle Rock]

Some people shoot them very well, others don’t.
From what I have seen little blokes that roll with the punches do better than big ones that fight it

 

[Macintosh]

See post #6.

The difference is also more apparent in positions other than prone. Its relatively easier to manage in prone. Less-so in other field positions.

 

[K9kodi]

I’d venture to say rifle fit n weight relative to persons ability matters more

 

[RockAndSage]

I've been thinking about this a lot and am hoping someone can answer it.

Magnum rifles are less accurate, partially because we shoot them less accurately, and partially because large magnum rifles move more during the shot. I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel. If the bullet has left the barrel, who cares how much rifle moves from an accuracy perspective, not a shot-spotting perspective. The movement caused by the change of center of mass from the firing pin coming forward would be similar or equivalent to that of a small centerfire rifle I imagine.

Where am I going wrong?

If this is all a question of just understanding gun physics, then it could turn up some interesting info. But if you're asking for practical realities, the only element that genuinely matters for anyone short of the elite, is how the shooter behaves. It's really easy to bench-race the hardware far beyond all practicality.

 

[Bluefish]

I've been thinking about this a lot and am hoping someone can answer it.

Magnum rifles are less accurate, partially because we shoot them less accurately, and partially because large magnum rifles move more during the shot. I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel. If the bullet has left the barrel, who cares how much rifle moves from an accuracy perspective, not a shot-spotting perspective. The movement caused by the change of center of mass from the firing pin coming forward would be similar or equivalent to that of a small centerfire rifle I imagine.

Where am I going wrong?

Motion starts almost right away after the powder ignites. F=ma. Velocity is position change vs time and acceleration is velocity vs time. Thus the gun starts to move right away, but moves more later as velocity builds. Gun weight (m) also comes into play. Take a light magnum rifle and the acceleration is at a maximum.

I know I shoot lower recoil better. I also quickly develop a flinch on heavy recoil. I am old enough now that I can admit it and get on with life. Don’t have to prove anything, just go shoot and have fun.

 

[dårlig jeger]

I think everyone that says they shoot magnums just as well is thinking shooting prone or bench is the same as unsupported or improvised field positions. It is not.

Shooting a magnum standing offhand or seated unsupported while twisted to a side is most definitely more challenging than a rifle with low recoil. It's borderline intuitive with 223 and much more difficult with high recoil, just because you aren't able to have the same, perfect form for recoil management.

If the movement was entirely after the bullet exited, nobody would care about body position or form or use of bags for controlling recoil direction.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

not a shot-spotting perspective.

But it would be foolish to ignore this aspect for the purposes of discussion typical on this site.

 

[43.6N]

It’s a combination of lock time and anticipation.
Go shoot a 45 handgun for a few min, and then switch to a 9mm. You will hit low until you fix the subconscious anticipation of the recoil. You can input a lot of variation into the gun between pulling the trigger and the bullet exiting the barrel.

It’s why learning to shoot magnums well is a level of marksmanship that not everyone can achieve.

 

[mustelid_master]

Motion starts almost right away after the powder ignites. F=ma. Velocity is position change vs time and acceleration is velocity vs time. Thus the gun starts to move right away, but moves more later as velocity builds. Gun weight (m) also comes into play. Take a light magnum rifle and the acceleration is at a maximum.

I know I shoot lower recoil better. I also quickly develop a flinch on heavy recoil. I am old enough now that I can adit it and get on with life. Don’t have to prove anything, just go shoot and have fun.

i think this is the answer. to qualify myself, i shoot a 223 regularly, have no dsire to shoot magnums, just curious how this all works.

 

[Macintosh]

I’d venture to say rifle fit n weight relative to persons ability matters more

Perhaps. But I think most of the answers are assuming those factors are held constant and the only variable is recoil. Two identical rifles—same weight, same fit, same everything, except one is a cupcake to shoot, while
the other is a .300Whompermag.

 

[K9kodi]

I’d say if both firearms being identical minus recoil, my first shots would be identical, second would be too. I’d also venture to say it would be a little longer back on target between rounds between a 223 and 300whopper. Again, shooting position would determine how much, but id say always a little longer on target w the whopper. I mean I just rattled off a 25 round mag of 223 out of my ar shooting it like it was a BB gun. I couldn’t do that w a 308 ar, but I am just as accurate, not as accurate for time

 

[Macintosh]

Tried it? Ive tried the circle/hunting rifle drill with my 6.5cm vs 270 in identical rifles. Not even a huge difference between cartridges. I definitely notice the time most, would have to do it several times more, but fairly sure I was worse with the 270 accuracy-wise.

 

[K9kodi]

Are you single if I tried something?

 

[Macintosh]

Are you single if I tried something?

No, Im happily married, but Im flattered you asked.

Autocorrect? I assume “Asking” is what you meant? Yes, was asking if you (or anyone commenting) ever tried a direct apples:apples comparison with identical guns to compare your actual performance between a lower and higher recoiling gun. When I started reading all the recoil stuff here I tried. Curious if others have actually tried a comparison, and if so what the results were. I think rather than read statements in one direction or another seeing direct comparison results is a lot more interesting and telling. What I saw using two cartridges that are both low/moderate (6.5cm vs 270win) in recoil is that my time for 2nd, third shots was significantly longer, I had a harder time seeing the impact to see if an animal reacted, ran left vs right, etc, and I think I saw lower scores in the circle drill although they werent super different. Curious what other have seen in order to base any claim of performance on good or bad.