Why does magnum movement matter for rifle accuracy?

[mustelid_master]

I've been thinking about this a lot and am hoping someone can answer it.

Magnum rifles are less accurate, partially because we shoot them less accurately, and partially because large magnum rifles move more during the shot. I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel. If the bullet has left the barrel, who cares how much rifle moves from an accuracy perspective, not a shot-spotting perspective. The movement caused by the change of center of mass from the firing pin coming forward would be similar or equivalent to that of a small centerfire rifle I imagine.

Where am I going wrong?

 

[Q_Sertorius]

In assuming that the majority of the recoil occurs after the bullet exits the muzzle.

Also, the firing pin moving forward does essentially nothing in changing the rifle’s center of gravity.

 

[Aussie Dan]

I always thought it was a combination of projectile dwell time in the barrel and the shooter anticipating the shot and flinching.

 

[Deere_Man]

Flinching, subconsciously anticipating the recoil affects the POI.

 

[K9kodi]

Recoil happens the moment the slug is separated from case I believe. It’s fractions of time between then and the exit of the barrel, less for shorter barrels and more for longer ones. I don’t believe i shoot my magnums less accurately then my non magnums, I am limited in some things however.
I don’t have the necessary freedom to shoot rapidly, I have to make sure I have the respected purchase on the rifle, intend to follow through w the shooting fundamentals a bit more. But i would not say im less accurate

 

[RME]

I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel.

I get what you're saying but the "vast majority" of movement isn't ALL of the movement and it's that movement that happens while the bullet is still in the barrel that's degrading accuracy.

To put it in perspective, with a 24" barrrel, the muzzle only has to move 0.007" to make a 1" change in impact at 100 yards. So that little extra torque as the bullet engages the rifling, that little anticipation of recoil, all those little things add up to make it increasingly difficult to hold the same level of accuracy as the amount of recoil goes up.

 

[Castle Rock]

Some people shoot them very well, others don’t.
From what I have seen little blokes that roll with the punches do better than big ones that fight it

 

[Macintosh]

See post #6.

The difference is also more apparent in positions other than prone. Its relatively easier to manage in prone. Less-so in other field positions.

 

[K9kodi]

I’d venture to say rifle fit n weight relative to persons ability matters more

 

[RockAndSage]

I've been thinking about this a lot and am hoping someone can answer it.

Magnum rifles are less accurate, partially because we shoot them less accurately, and partially because large magnum rifles move more during the shot. I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel. If the bullet has left the barrel, who cares how much rifle moves from an accuracy perspective, not a shot-spotting perspective. The movement caused by the change of center of mass from the firing pin coming forward would be similar or equivalent to that of a small centerfire rifle I imagine.

Where am I going wrong?

If this is all a question of just understanding gun physics, then it could turn up some interesting info. But if you're asking for practical realities, the only element that genuinely matters for anyone short of the elite, is how the shooter behaves. It's really easy to bench-race the hardware far beyond all practicality.

 

[Bluefish]

I've been thinking about this a lot and am hoping someone can answer it.

Magnum rifles are less accurate, partially because we shoot them less accurately, and partially because large magnum rifles move more during the shot. I would think that most rifle movement is caused by recoil, the vast majority of which happens after the bullet leaves the barrel. If the bullet has left the barrel, who cares how much rifle moves from an accuracy perspective, not a shot-spotting perspective. The movement caused by the change of center of mass from the firing pin coming forward would be similar or equivalent to that of a small centerfire rifle I imagine.

Where am I going wrong?

Motion starts almost right away after the powder ignites. F=ma. Velocity is position change vs time and acceleration is velocity vs time. Thus the gun starts to move right away, but moves more later as velocity builds. Gun weight (m) also comes into play. Take a light magnum rifle and the acceleration is at a maximum.

I know I shoot lower recoil better. I also quickly develop a flinch on heavy recoil. I am old enough now that I can admit it and get on with life. Don’t have to prove anything, just go shoot and have fun.

 

[dårlig jeger]

I think everyone that says they shoot magnums just as well is thinking shooting prone or bench is the same as unsupported or improvised field positions. It is not.

Shooting a magnum standing offhand or seated unsupported while twisted to a side is most definitely more challenging than a rifle with low recoil. It's borderline intuitive with 223 and much more difficult with high recoil, just because you aren't able to have the same, perfect form for recoil management.

If the movement was entirely after the bullet exited, nobody would care about body position or form or use of bags for controlling recoil direction.

 

[pods8 (Rugged Stitching)]

not a shot-spotting perspective.

But it would be foolish to ignore this aspect for the purposes of discussion typical on this site.

 

[43.6N]

It’s a combination of lock time and anticipation.
Go shoot a 45 handgun for a few min, and then switch to a 9mm. You will hit low until you fix the subconscious anticipation of the recoil. You can input a lot of variation into the gun between pulling the trigger and the bullet exiting the barrel.

It’s why learning to shoot magnums well is a level of marksmanship that not everyone can achieve.

 

[mustelid_master]

Motion starts almost right away after the powder ignites. F=ma. Velocity is position change vs time and acceleration is velocity vs time. Thus the gun starts to move right away, but moves more later as velocity builds. Gun weight (m) also comes into play. Take a light magnum rifle and the acceleration is at a maximum.

I know I shoot lower recoil better. I also quickly develop a flinch on heavy recoil. I am old enough now that I can adit it and get on with life. Don’t have to prove anything, just go shoot and have fun.

i think this is the answer. to qualify myself, i shoot a 223 regularly, have no dsire to shoot magnums, just curious how this all works.