Why can't Vortex match Swarovski ?

Where do you draw the OEM line?

I draw it this way: Vortex and many other companies offer both OEM models and models they designed themselves or had the OEM alter to their own specs.

The Euro Big 3 utilize OEMs for their products and/or parts of products themselves, so maybe drawing the line isn't so simple for them, either.

Just a couple examples Vipers and Monarch 7's are different color, Talons and Zen Ray Primes, Zen Ray spotter/Razor HD to start. In all of the Asian import glass, you can find matching optics (weight, dimensions, coatings, body design, etc) and evaluate them side by side with exactly the same results. Hence my branding company remark.

Three misses there, WRO, but it does prove my point. The Vipers and Monarch 7s can't be the same design, because their FOV specs are substantially different. The Talons and Primes are completely different designs, although the Talons and Zen Ray ED series are kissing cousins. The Zen Ray and Razor HD spotters also appear the same externally, but have been internally examined to find they aren't identical either.

Just goes to show there is more to the story than looks alone.
 
I was hoping Bitteroot would chime in here. Could it be just as simple as the quality of glass and almost nothing else?
 
There are only so many places that make the glass they cut it to the prescription requested. It is the coatings and placement of the lenses that really make the difference.
 
I was told the AMG(being 100% american made) glass was made in like Massachusetts, ground in Fichburg(15 minutes from there shop) and I and didn't here yet if its coated at Vortex or where. A real departure from the VERY few that make everyones glass.
 
It wasnt that long ago El's were $1299 from Cabelas. I bought a pair. Then watched the price increase $100 per year. Used my EL's for 5 years and sold them for profit. My 2016 Razor's are better (IMO) than my old EL's.

Bitterootbulls is spot on with his assessment.

*my latest Razors have excellent edge to edge clarity where I always felt the Swaros beat them.
 
There are only so many places that make the glass they cut it to the prescription requested. It is the coatings and placement of the lenses that really make the difference.


I agree. The coatings and processes used are "Area 51 Classified".
 
A few things:


Vortex makes products, IMO, designed to compete in the Asian mfg's arena (Nikon, Bushnell, Pentax, Leupold, Zen-Ray) as well as some Euro companies (Zeiss, Meopta, Minox). They, again IMO, offer a quality product priced slightly below a similar item from another mfg as well as producing some optics above the offerings of these other companies. They offer the finest warranty in the industry (full no questions asked coverage) which is not exclusive to them, however, the majority of companies do not offer the same.


Swarovski and Leica compete for the finest of the fine. They are in their own exclusive arena (Zeiss used to be there with them, however, they now offer entry level optics as well as the finest of the fine) Swaro & Leica do not offer any entry level options as this is not what their companies are about. BMW, Jaguar and Rolls Royce do not offer an entry level vehicles. It's not what they are about. GM offers entry level vehicles as well as high end Cadillacs. I would not expect GM to offer anything to compare to a Rolls, however, they make some great vehicles.


The Vortex Razor series is very high end. In a side by side with a top end Zeiss, Leica or Swaro some people will see a difference, and some will not. That depends on the eyesight of the viewer. Those that see a difference can then decide if the price difference warrants the difference they see. It is all very subjective and will always vary from person to person.



I know Vortex has put in a ton of resources the last five years to have their Very Own American Scope Factory. Coming soon you will find the new AMG Scope available here at Camera Land.
Vortex is moving in a direction to manufacture more of their products here in the USA. I for one am very excited about this. I think in the past decade they have made some amazing products, priced them right and stood behind all their offerings. This has made what was a barely known company a major player in the optics industry.
I don't think the Swarovski's of the industry need to be concerned, however, the Nikon's of the industry certainly should be.

So don't wonder why a Vortex is not matching Swarovski, but maybe see what Vortex is offering in the price range that interests you and compare it within that price range. I think you'll be very pleased.

Feel free to give me a call to discuss optics anytime. That's what we are here for.
Doug 516-217-1000
 
Frank realeased his review of the AMG, pretty sure he is the only person outside of Vortex with any real time behind the scope. You can click on the read review along with the video. Problem is going to be even if you decide you want one if you are not on the pre order list I bet they you will be at least a year out
http://www.scout.com/military/snipe...pes/14790083-vortex-razor-hd-amg-6-24x-review

Until futher notice we anticipate delivery on all pre-orders before the end of the Summer
 
This is probably a very uneducated optic question, but why with today's technology can Vortex not match Swarovski on their top of the line optics.. It seems like once making glass and housing etc on optics would be pretty standard.. I'm guessing it has more to do with the coatings??

I openly hate vortex optics, they are just advertisers who buy over sea's optics and put they're name on it. They spend all they're money advertising making the uninformed feel like they will kill bigger animals if they buy that scope. Vortex doesn't make a single thing, if you like they're optics then save the money and buy a Zen Ray, same thing with a different name.

Vortex doesn't have a SINGLE government/military or major L.E. contract, which tells you that a Walmart warranty of when it breaks we will replace it doesn't mean anything when you truelly need it to perform. Guys in head to toe kuiu gear with vortex optics are just gear guys who saw the ad of a guy climbing out of a helicopter with a home made long bow on top of a glacier wearing his kuiu gear with vortex bino's and think that if they have that gear, they will be able to do that as well. It's all about making you think you need it. Look at the original major outfitters, not a single one is running around in cloud colored kuiu gear with vortex optics around they're neck. Nothing cracks me up more than reading the articles and looking at pictures of guys going on sheep, grizzly, billy hunts with the hunter wearing head to toe matching Kuiu gear with vortex hat, carrier, scope binos and spotter all on display and the guide is in regular non name brand gear that's brown and tan with a worn out pair of swaro or leica's around his neck.

The major optics makers make they're own optics and can offer superior coatings and components. A guy in Wisconsin who orders his optics from a warehouse in China can not compete.

If Vortex does start a u.s facility and began making components here in the U.S. and not just assembling the same material but in the U.S., they will surely drag in more business which is great for them. But if they just assemble the same material but in the U.S. the product will not change, just the price.
 
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I openly hate vortex optics, they are just advertisers who buy over sea's optics and put they're name on it. They spend all they're money advertising making the uninformed feel like they will kill bigger animals if they buy that scope. Vortex doesn't make a single thing, if you like they're optics then save the money and buy a Zen Ray, same thing with a different name.

Vortex doesn't have a SINGLE government/military or major L.E. contract, which tells you that a Walmart warranty of when it breaks we will replace it doesn't mean anything when you truelly need it to perform. Guys in head to toe kuiu gear with vortex optics are just gear guys who saw the ad of a guy climbing out of a helicopter with a home made long bow on top of a glacier wearing his kuiu gear with vortex bino's and think that if they have that gear, they will be able to do that as well. It's all about making you think you need it. Look at the original major outfitters, not a single one is running around in cloud colored kuiu gear with vortex optics around they're neck. Nothing cracks me up more than reading the articles and looking at pictures of guys going on sheep, grizzly, billy hunts with the hunter wearing head to toe matching Kuiu gear with vortex hat, carrier, scope binos and spotter all on display and the guide is in regular non name brand gear that's brown and tan with a worn out pair of swaro or leica's around his neck.

The major optics makers make they're own optics and can offer superior coatings and components. A guy in Wisconsin who orders his optics from a warehouse in China can not compete.

If Vortex does start a u.s facility and began making components here in the U.S. and not just assembling the same material but in the U.S., they will surely drag in more business which is great for them. But if they just assemble the same material but in the U.S. the product will not change, just the price.

Keep searching for a clue..... Have you not read anything. There is a reason more shooters on the prs circut are using the razor2. So do tell who are the manufacturers that make all there stuff in house......this should be fun
 
I openly hate vortex optics, they are just advertisers who buy over sea's optics and put they're name on it. They spend all they're money advertising making the uninformed feel like they will kill bigger animals if they buy that scope. Vortex doesn't make a single thing, if you like they're optics then save the money and buy a Zen Ray, same thing with a different name.

Vortex doesn't have a SINGLE government/military or major L.E. contract, which tells you that a Walmart warranty of when it breaks we will replace it doesn't mean anything when you truelly need it to perform. Guys in head to toe kuiu gear with vortex optics are just gear guys who saw the ad of a guy climbing out of a helicopter with a home made long bow on top of a glacier wearing his kuiu gear with vortex bino's and think that if they have that gear, they will be able to do that as well. It's all about making you think you need it. Look at the original major outfitters, not a single one is running around in cloud colored kuiu gear with vortex optics around they're neck. Nothing cracks me up more than reading the articles and looking at pictures of guys going on sheep, grizzly, billy hunts with the hunter wearing head to toe matching Kuiu gear with vortex hat, carrier, scope binos and spotter all on display and the guide is in regular non name brand gear that's brown and tan with a worn out pair of swaro or leica's around his neck.

The major optics makers make they're own optics and can offer superior coatings and components. A guy in Wisconsin who orders his optics from a warehouse in China can not compete.

If Vortex does start a u.s facility and began making components here in the U.S. and not just assembling the same material but in the U.S., they will surely drag in more business which is great for them. But if they just assemble the same material but in the U.S. the product will not change, just the price.

You make a shit load of assumptions, sprinkled with misinformation with little if any factual, or direct usage knowledge...
 
You make a shit load of assumptions, sprinkled with misinformation with little if any factual, or direct usage knowledge...

Feel free to list any and all government, country or major LE contracts with vortex, I could be wrong but I have not read of a single one. Leupold, zeiss, nightforce, S&B, kahles, US optics, Steiner all have or have had contracts. All these major brands advertise features or accomplishments, I just see vortex advertising about when or if it breaks, we will fix it no matter what. I never claimed more people aren't switching to vortex for different things, but as many reviews state, optically clarity varies from person to person along with performance and any person can find a review/comparison chart of any and every product made and the results will change with each study. Anyone can find a study showing what they want. I said at the beginning this is my opinion from what I read. call it what you want, this is a dodge/Chevy debate and someone will always get there feeling hurt and start using foul language when someone talks down on there brand. From what I have seen and read these are my opinions.
I love nightforce and Swarovski for many different reasons and those are my brands I have the most experience with. I'm pretty opinionated about the gear I like or don't like and don't mind talking about it as I spend the majority of my time using it. I don't stand alone in my views on vortex as I keep getting notified of people liking or thanking for what I posted. Again this is a dodge/Chevy/ford debate.
 
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"Keep searching for a clue..... Have you not read anything. There is a reason more shooters on the prs circut are using the razor2. So tell who are the manufacturers that make all there stuff in house......this should be fun"




Not saying some people aren't switching to vortex for different reasons, clearly you can't advertise that much of your not moving products, but I haven't seen anything on line about vortex being the leading/top/newest choice at BR or PRS matches. Sure some shooters use them just like some shooters use March or zeiss or Steiner. Again I could be wrong but feel free to put in a link as to where you see vortex taking over the precision comps. I can't even find a reputable smith that offers vortex for sale in a package, you mainly see Leupold, nightforce, zeiss and I even see bushnell being pushed since it got in with George but I haven't seen vortex on a builder's site. Again, this is my opinion, I'm not saying vortex is crap, I just feel there is better out there made by companies that at the very least assemble they're own optics. I think the fact you can sell a 10 year old pair of EL's or SLC's for what you paid for them 10 years ago has to old some value as to the know quality/clarity of a company.
 
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Keep searching for a clue..... Have you not read anything. There is a reason more shooters on the prs circut are using the razor2. So do tell who are the manufacturers that make all there stuff in house......this should be fun

Leica, Swarovski, Schmidt and bender, Khales, US optics to name a couple that make all of their optics in house. Leupold, (gold rings) Zeiss (Vitctory series), Meopta in the Meostar series, are a few other optics companies that make a large portion of their optics in house.

On the PRS series a couple reasons could be, 1 Vortex sponsors it, and 2 anyone in the industry knows that vortex has one of the loosest prostaff/industry discount programs in the industry.
 
Some not all but again just same like vortex is doing now. Where do all the manufacturers get there glass from?
 
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