Why cant people accept the fact that some people dont need a drop tested scope?

[lungpuncher1]

Looking forward to knife length and size debates, arguments over sharpening, stabbing vs slicing, grip preferences, and of course post drop performance testing. What is your planned delivery system?


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Swiss Army knife, stainless unknown munitions toothpick, two finger grip

 

[jimh406]

Why? Here you go ...

Narcissistic personality disorder is a mental health condition in which people have an unreasonably high sense of their own importance. They need and seek too much attention and want people to admire them.

 

[Machingeaneer]

Looking forward to knife length and size debates, arguments over sharpening, stabbing vs slicing, grip preferences, and of course post drop performance testing. What is your planned delivery system?


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Don't forget edge retention testing

 

[35WhelenAI]

35,
Those are some great animals and obviously represent good kill shots. But, respectfully, they don't really show whether or not your scope held zero. Without having a mark that shows your point of aim and measuring from there to the point of impact, all we really can tell is you most likely hit within 8 inches or so of where you were aiming. Again, I'm not trying to trash what look like great memorable hunts, nor am I claiming you didn't hit where you aimed, I'm just trying to explain what data can and can't be analyzed from seeing pictures of dead critters vs a test on paper with exact points of aim and impact.

So if you are trying to show that even though a certain scope might not perfectly hold zero, it can still be used somewhat effectively (or in your case very effectively) to kill animals, then I think you've shown it well. However if you are trying to show that a certain scope reliably holds zero, then I don't think showing successful kills really gives quantifiable evidence of that.

And I guess this reply isn't specifically aimed at you, you just posted a good example. Many times I've seen replies in scope threads of "I know my XYZ doesn't have any problems because I've killed so many critters with it."

I'm glad your VX2s and VX3s are serving you well, and if I ever ended up in the right place at the right time I'd join you and your Leupolds on a hunt in a heartbeat.

I appreciate you sharing those thoughts. I'm not going to pretend that Leupold scopes don't show the same results as other scopes in the drop tests.

For most hunters, they don't stretch to stupid long ranges that are touted as being the way to do it these days. The cone of fire/patterning these horrible poster child scopes deliver still get it done, from what I'm seeing and from experience of every single animal in the pictures I shared being a one shot affair.

The well chosen operative words in your post above are "very effectively". When the equipment delivers when I do my part, it's a moot point to me that I'm missing out on anything or somehow not doing what hunters do in the most effective and clean manner we can.

 

[roosiebull]

Screw it, I’m going to start strictly doing knife kills

How much abuse will the edge of your knife take? D2 is kinda the nightforce of blade steel if you haven’t bought your hunting knife

S90v is your leupold, way over rated and brittle, once it gets dull in the field, you’ll be screwed

 

[Duh]

Do a lot of people drop their rifles when out hunting? I've been hunting the coastal mountains of Kalifornia for 55 years and can't remember dropping my rifle.

Funny you should ask, I broke a vortex Razor last weekend while coyote hunting. Trying to get down an icy slope and straight up dropped that puppy from about shoulder height. Shattered the front glass and broke the tube in the front. Thank god for that warranty haha.

Then just this morning, I was out coyote hunting and slipped and fell straight on top of my NX8 while it was slung on my shoulder. The back of my ribs feel like they might be cracked but my freaking zero is spot on!

I don’t drop guns while deer or elk hunting but coyote hunting is eating my lunch.

 

[fwafwow]

I appreciate you sharing those thoughts. I'm not going to pretend that Leupold scopes don't show the same results as other scopes in the drop tests.

For most hunters, they don't stretch to stupid long ranges that are touted as being the way to do it these days. The cone of fire/patterning these horrible poster child scopes deliver still get it done, from what I'm seeing and from experience of every single animal in the pictures I shared being a one shot affair.

The well chosen operative words in your post above are "very effectively". When the equipment delivers when I do my part, it's a moot point to me that I'm missing out on anything or somehow not doing what hunters do in the most effective and clean manner we can.

This kind of back and forth is good to see.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I think a lot of you have a hard time with “tone” on the internet. Nobody is truly upset or mad about any of this in my mind. It’s just open debate with good instances of info and “DaTa” on both sides.

If I disagree with somebody on here, it’s not “personal” or a “contest”. It’s just good debate with folks with different experiences. Stop taking stuff personally and change your avatar to a parrot and move on.

 

[Billy Goat]

Stop taking stuff personally and change your avatar to a pirate and move on.

Fixed

 

[Billy Goat]

People take things too personal. Most also want to be right. I just like honest discussion and sharing ideas.

Are the drop tests perfect? Do they show how certain brands may have strengths or weaknesses? Do they mean all Nightforces are great? Do they mean all Leupolds are crap?

I'll just say this, I love Dodge (Ram) trucks. I have driven nothing else since 1985. They have been stellar for me in every way. Are they the best? Are they perfect? Are they the best value? They are to me. Would I die defending them to the world? No. But until they stop working for me, I'll keep driving them.

If what you have works for you, by all means keep using it. I'll use what works for me. Just don't close your mind to new ideas or higher standards. That's how better products get developed. And remember, it's shouldn't be personal.

 

[Archer86]

are drop test not held to statistical significant number of scopes tested and not used scopes that who knows what has been done to them? Testing used scopes and saying they are junk seams dumb to me.

I have been switching to nightforce lately and looks like they have a good record on the drop test but I would never consider drop testing my rifle. I tend to take care of my equipment. Seams like a Fudd thing to do....hahah

 

[ssimo]

For clarification, not to further stomp the turds down the drain.


His reference is the fact that the Rokslide Special (RSS) is recommended to have a sub $600 scope. Likely the most recommended scope on this site.

It's not in a poll of hunters what's most recommended, that's probably vortex. I'd bet less than 5% of hunting license purchasers across the US have even heard of a super chicken.


Back to your regularly scheduled dumpster fire.

Someone @ me when it's time for Memes.

Thanks for the effort to stop the arguing, Billy. I will not go back to talk about "the most recommended scope" because it's OT, because it's not interesting and because if you guys didn't get my very simple post the first time, the chances of you getting it now are very low.

Sorry, since i am not an english speaker, i think i didn't understand correctly the dumpster fire thing. We can talk about the various models of bins for this purpose, i am an expert in this field! I could reply with some delay because, between the two scheduled dumpster fires of today, i have to take one of my 3 cars, the Macan S, to the mechanic for some manutention. Sorry for that!

 

[ssimo]

Looking forward to knife length and size debates, arguments over sharpening, stabbing vs slicing, grip preferences, and of course post drop performance testing. What is your planned delivery system?


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And let alone when someone will start arguing on "what is the most recommended knife here", such an interesting topic!!! XD

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I read all of the scope tests with interest and think they do a pretty good job of identifying rugged and repeatable scopes. I have had quite a few Leupolds and Leupold made Redfields over the years. Seven right now. Many of them rode in handlebar mounted gun racks on my ATV and were subject to quite a bit impact and vibration. If they shifted, I never knew it, nor did deer or squirrels. That said, they certainly did the mystery tracking getting them sighted in.

 

[BjornF16]

I read all of the scope tests with interest and think they do a pretty good job of identifying rugged and repeatable scopes. I have had quite a few Leupolds and Leupold made Redfields over the years. Seven right now. Many of them rode in handlebar mounted gun racks on my ATV and were subject to quite a bit impact and vibration. If they shifted, I never knew it, nor did deer or squirrels. That said, they certainly did the mystery tracking getting them sighted in.

I think this captures the issue...at what ranges were the deer and squirrels dispatched?

I've had my share of Vortex scopes. I've harvested plenty of critters using them, but those shots were all inside of 300 yards. On a 10-18" target, hard to miss even if there was a shift.

My eye opener was constantly chasing zero, especially when I was hand loading, and the low hit rates when I began to stretch my shooting beyond 300 yards.

Was it all the scope? No. I suck at shooting. But I have been eliminating variables and have been steadily improving.

 

[Macintosh]

My impression of the answer to the OP’s question…

I think a lot of the folks doing the “pro-drop test harassment” are exasperated with scope companies gaslighting them by trying to pass wandering zeros off as normal. Thinking of my wasted time, ammo, money, angst and joie de vivre from chasing a wandering zero on several scopes that the manufacturer told me repeatedly were “functioning within spec” and that I must be doing something wrong, makes me really frustrated. All were eventually replaced under warranty, but when I finally figured out what was happening and replaced those scopes, things universally tightened up measurably even without making ANY other changes—so Im quite certain there was actually an issue with the scope (and not the rings, bases or gun) in every case. So when asked, regardless of whether someone will use it at 60 yards or 600 yards I wont recommend those brands any more, and it takes real willpower to not argue with those who do. Not because I think everyone needs a scope to always be within .1mil even with heavy use, but because it really set me back when I started trying to just be a better shooter.
My brother has a vx3hd that functions well and has been reliable for several years, and he uses it hard-and he also likes to shoot little groups and geek-out on reloading, etc, so I know there are good leupold scopes out there. But, having been burned one time too many to chalk it up to 1 bad “fluke” of a scope, I hate to see anyone else go through the hassle I did trying to improve my shooting while using that equipment. Thats the answer to the question from my perspective.

I worked for a european outdoor company for many years—a good one, that invested a ton of money in testing and making quality a priority. Despite that, we had many products where the measured return rate was vastly different between the US and EU. There were items the euros had a problem with that we never saw returns, and there were other items where the euros loved them and we considered it junk due to unacceptably high levels of breakage. The fact is that different people are accustomed to using and handling things differently, and there is a big difference between regional usage as well as regional expectation. Its hard for someone who is having a legit issue to hear that they are “misusing it” or imagining the problem, and its also hard for someone who did a pile of testing or has extensively used a product with good success to hear that “they must not know what they are talking about” or must not be using it very hard. I have seen this with my own eyes, and collected and analyzed the return rates from the same production-runs, so I know it is the reality. I think people will always have a hard time putting themselves in other shoes like this, and therefore I dont see it ever really being “resolved”.

 

[ORJoe]

I'll be very surprised if SWFA is even around this time next year.

At this point I'm pretty sure the entire drop test saga was a guerilla marketing campaign to help SWFA blow out all of their inventory of 1990s scopes before they close up and coast off into the sunset.

 

[mtnwrunner]

For clarification, not to further stomp the turds down the drain.


His reference is the fact that the Rokslide Special (RSS) is recommended to have a sub $600 scope. Likely the most recommended scope on this site.

It's not in a poll of hunters what's most recommended, that's probably vortex. I'd bet less than 5% of hunting license purchasers across the US have even heard of a super chicken.


Back to your regularly scheduled dumpster fire.

Someone @ me when it's time for Memes.

 

[Billy Goat]

View attachment 661213

About put the tractor in the ditch laughing at that one.

 

[Fartrell Cluggins]

I think this captures the issue...at what ranges were the deer and squirrels dispatched?

I've had my share of Vortex scopes. I've harvested plenty of critters using them, but those shots were all inside of 300 yards. On a 10-18" target, hard to miss even if there was a shift.

My eye opener was constantly chasing zero, especially when I was hand loading, and the low hit rates when I began to stretch my shooting beyond 300 yards.

Was it all the scope? No. I suck at shooting. But I have been eliminating variables and have been steadily improving.

All at distances where a .5 MOA shift wouldn't have been an issue.