redcorn65, my apologies if you felt my reply was a personal attack. It was not. Simply a different perspective. As Broomd said, this is a very political and hotly contested topic. I am NOT an expert here, simply someone involved with it almost daily and simply giving credence to what I see or what is or is not being reported. I do appreciate all opinions and no one should feel like they cant contribute without retribution. Moving on...
gelton, you have some excellent points. To answer some of your questions.
I have never had COVID. My wife and oldest son (17 yo) both have had it, both prior to vaccination. My wife then got it a 2nd time after vaccination. My oldest son got it again but he had not been vaccinated yet. Looking back, when the vaccine first came out I was uncertain of how I would proceed. The morning I was scheduled to get the shot my thought process was, if I had had a prior infection and still had circulating antibodies I was going to wait until a later point before getting vaccinated. Surprisingly, my test was negative. So, I got the vaccine. The simple reason was at that point and time it was all hands on deck caring for patients. Me being down and unable to work would affect the work force available to provide the care needed. I knew I was low risk, at worse hopefully would have only gotten mild symptoms but would be forced to stay home for 14 days placing a huge burden on my partners. Additionally, if my symptoms were severe, I couldn't stomach the thought of looking my wife and kids in the face and possibly not coming back home. So admittedly, there was some fear on my part (whether likely or unlikely at that point and time) that pushed me to get the vaccine. It was not mandated by my hospital to do so. Sars viruses aren't something new and have been around for years. I was comfortable in my choice and the data I had seen thus far.
I do believe in herd immunity, however......I believe achieving that with this virus may be difficult. I don't know if we can maintain and antibody level long enough to achieve it. What we don't know, and I am not certain anyone is capturing this data, or at least doesn't have enough data to make a statement on it is this...... What Natural antibody level do we become at risk of infection/transmission. You are correct regarding the reports that natural immunity outlasts vaccine immunity. The Israel study is showing an 8 month immunity from the vaccine currently hence all of the discussion about a booster after 8 months. The natural immunity has shown to outlast that.....based on the numbers. But what I want to know is at what antibody level does that natural immunity equate to NO immunity. Is it a level of 400 , 100, 50. So yes, you may have had COVID before and have "natural immunity" but is it effective immunity? Obvious at certain antibody levels it is, but when is it not? We don't know. And unfortunately to capture this data requires an inordinate amount of time, inconvenience and money.
Regarding the obstetrical subset of patients, there is good data but not enough of it yet. I know at our institution and the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecology are recommending vaccination if pregnant as pregnancy has an increased risk of poor outcome with a COVID transmission. Pfizer is available for 12 and up, Moderna is 18 and up. J&J I don't know about but would recommend it over the other two. Current studies show no increased risk of miscarriage's during the first trimester if one has had the vaccine. I didn't do the research so......that's all I can say regarding that. In those that haven't been vaccinated and have contracted COVID, most do well. We have had roughly 10 in the past month require intubation and placed on a ventilator. We have had several fetal demises early in their gestation due to clotting of the vessels to the placenta. Breastfeeding vaccinated moms have shown to pass antibodies to the child aiding in their immunity and as of to date, breastfeeding is encouraged for vaccinated mothers. I am unaware of any studies that refute this recommendation.
For those who already have natural immunity and the need for vaccination. This goes back to my prior statement. You may have an antibody level, but, is that level enough to prevent an infection? No one can give us a minimum number for what antibody level you need to have for it to be effective. Until they can, I would personally recommend it.
Our admissions are true hospital admission that are requiring oxygen/ventilatory support. We don't have room to treat runny noses, nausea, headaches like some of you EMTs are talking about and increased call volumes. I am sure our call volumes are up to, but they all get triaged and if it can be managed safely at home you go home.
Just to reiterate, I am NOT an expert in virology or epidemiology. This is simply my opinion, this is not professional medical advice. Do your research, educate yourself, make a choice. At the end of the day, I'll hunt and be friends with anyone no matter your vaccinated status.
www.cdc.gov
