Who carries a pistol?

[BRobertson]

My friend owns a 5" 460 X-Frame. Every time we go out fishing or take the wives hiking or berry pickin she has to beg him to pack the thing. She was mauled by a bear in WA as a teen. He has a nice shoulder/chest rig for it but it's an XL-Frame heavy handgun. It's not a belt gun. Now this guys not a wimp, he's my sheep hunting partner and is a very strong guy. But, packing that revolver is a hassle. He says it all the time. Last week half way through our 15 mile hike he took it off his shoulder and stuck it in his pack because the shoulder rig finally got to him. This was on the trail that is the one in the news links above. It's griz country.

The best "bear gun" is the one you can/will pack and can shoot accurately. Starting with a 357 w/180gr hardcast max load. I pack a 4" Redhawk that started life as a 45 Colt but is now a 454. It was on my pack belt or hip all day. It worked, we didn't see any bears It was either that or the fact that I had a bear tag in my pocket! He may as well had a bb gun or 5 lbs of rocks in his pack.

A "bear gun" that is too big to pack is a gun that should be replaced.

my .02

Exactly!!

A handgun has to be comfortable to carry, otherwise we will find excuses not to carry it!! That is why I had a 4" Redhawk made from a 7" Redhawk,
years ago, before Ruger started making that barrel length. I wanted something that would carry easily while I was packing meat, or fishing, and something
that was strong enough to take many thousands of my heavy bear loads.

Bob

 

[Snyd]

This thread needs pics!

Here's my 454 Redhawk. I swapped the cylinder out of a 454 SRH. My "454 Snyd" load is 454 brass shortened half way between 45 Colt and 454 with this 355gr wfn that I cast from a custom LBT mould. This combination/oal will cycle through that action of my 454 levergun smooth and reliably and has the same case capacity as standard 454 brass with a 360gr Cast Performance boolit. I've got a few hotter loads worked up but this one doesn't jump crimp in the Redhawk and it's very accurate in both guns. Since it's LilGun instead of H110 it's reliable cold weather load. This is 50yds. I load the same boolit in my 45 Colt SBH.

 

[BRobertson]

Snyd,

I really like your taste in handguns, and your choice in loads!! (Also the Simply Rugged holster) I have just recently started experimenting with a couple of .454s. I don't think I need the

extra power over my trusty .44s, but I am enjoying loading for, and shooting something different!!

Bob

 

[Snyd]

If I was to do it all over again, and if it was going to cost any money, I'd leave the Redhawk a 45 Colt. The RH cylinder is beefier than a BH cylinder and can handle any 45 Colt Ruger only load and probably a life time of 5 shot 40-50,000 psi 45 Colt loads. SR primers can be tricky to light of with the RH as well when shooting DA. I did some work to the gun and switched to fed 205's and now it goes bang every time in DA. the 454 RH is kinda cool but not really needed. The 454 cylinder does have tighter chambers though.

Snyd,

I really like your taste in handguns, and your choice in loads!! (Also the Simply Rugged holster) I have just recently started experimenting with a couple of .454s. I don't think I need the

extra power over my trusty .44s, but I am enjoying loading for, and shooting something different!!

Bob

 

[BRobertson]

I have heard that the RH has occasional problems with primer ignition, and the magnum small rifle cups are really hard.
Hamilton Bowen makes extended firing pins for the Rugers, he might want to install it though.

Bob

 

[Larry Bartlett]

I carry a Glock 10mm with heavy 280gr lead. Haven't had to shoot a bear yet so may be a false security element involved. However, most hunt scenarios in Alaska involve weather and wind. Never know which direction a bear will approach, and a nervous hunter facing a bear encounter will most likely forget about wind direction. Bear spray into the wind and you're getting it in your eyes or on your skin, and not on the bear. It'll eat you like a pepper steak.

Proper bear safety and avoidance goes a lot farther than bear spray or poor aim with any pistol, IMO.

 

[Vitals]

What 280gr loads are you using? I haven't been able to find any for my G20....

I carry a Glock 10mm with heavy 280gr lead. Haven't had to shoot a bear yet so may be a false security element involved. However, most hunt scenarios in Alaska involve weather and wind. Never know which direction a bear will approach, and a nervous hunter facing a bear encounter will most likely forget about wind direction. Bear spray into the wind and you're getting it in your eyes or on your skin, and not on the bear. It'll eat you like a pepper steak.

Proper bear safety and avoidance goes a lot farther than bear spray or poor aim with any pistol, IMO.

 

[fillthefreezer]

This thread needs pics!

thats F'n sweet rig snyd!

 

[Snyd]

Ya thanks. I guess the older Redhawks could have short firing pin protrusion. This one's good. The firing pin is inertia driven and as we know the RH only has one spring for hammer and trigger. A stronger spring gives more inertia but stiffens up the trigger. I smoothed everything up, shaved the hammer face and that helped some but not 100%. It never had a problem in SA even with CCI 450's. But, in SA the hammer cocks back slightly further that it travels when shooting DA. Gives more inertia. At any rate, it works good now and hopefully be the end of the summer my Gallagher 500L will be done and I'll pack it

I have heard that the RH has occasional problems with primer ignition, and the magnum small rifle cups are really hard.
Hamilton Bowen makes extended firing pins for the Rugers, he might want to install it though.

Bob

 

[Mike7]

My friend owns a 5" 460 X-Frame. Every time we go out fishing or take the wives hiking or berry pickin she has to beg him to pack the thing. She was mauled by a bear in WA as a teen. He has a nice shoulder/chest rig for it but it's an XL-Frame heavy handgun. It's not a belt gun. Now this guys not a wimp, he's my sheep hunting partner and is a very strong guy. But, packing that revolver is a hassle. He says it all the time. Last week half way through our 15 mile hike he took it off his shoulder and stuck it in his pack because the shoulder rig finally got to him. This was on the trail that is the one in the news links above. It's griz country.

The best "bear gun" is the one you can/will pack and can shoot accurately. Starting with a 357 w/180gr hardcast max load. I pack a 4" Redhawk that started life as a 45 Colt but is now a 454. It was on my pack belt or hip all day. It worked, we didn't see any bears It was either that or the fact that I had a bear tag in my pocket! He may as well had a bb gun or 5 lbs of rocks in his pack.

A "bear gun" that is too big to pack is a gun that should be replaced.

my .02

I could not agree more with this. That is why I carry a G20 (it is comfortable on the hip or in a shoulder holster). Also, it is really easy to shoot, even for recoil wussy's like me who don't get out a lot to practice. The follow up shots are especially like butter...my 14 yr old daughter even loves to shoot the G20 and shoots it well (she has good sized hands though).

In parts of Alaska, I'm not sure that I would be brave enough to carry just a Glock, but if one does, then I wonder if you would be hindering yourself shooting 280 grain loads considering the limitations of the platform?

Here is my reasoning, and please tell me if I'm wrong. I figure that a person wants to deliver as much kinetic energy to a bear's tissues as possible, once the bullet has penetrated to the vitals. Hardcast bullets are designed to penetrate, and additionally, 10mm bullets have a good ballistic coefficient to aid with this. Looking at Doubletap Ammo which I shoot out of my G20, a 200 grain bullet has 750 ft-lbs of energy while a 230 grain bullet has only 641 ft-lbs because of the decreased velocity of the heavier bullet. The 200 gr bullets that I shoot, will go completely through an at least 12-14 inch log making a bullet sized hole on the other side (not sure how evergreen wood equates to bear tissues though).

 

[Snyd]

Mike7 - Lots of discussion about the 10mm over at AOD forums. Here's one thread going on right now.

http://forums.outdoorsdirectory.com/showthread.php/132381-Please-help-educate-me-on-the-Glock-10mm-s

 

[Mike7]

Thanks for the link Snyd. It sounds like a may want to beef up my Glock a little with a couple a new parts if I ever plan on shooting much of the full/higher powered 10mm loads.

 

[Ants]

I have not hunted grizz/browns with a bow, but have hunted black bears with a bow and I do carry a hand gun as back up. One of the first people to respond to this thread mentioned that the key is to practice combat type shooting, which makes alot of sense. My thinking on this has been based on a similar principal, which is that no matter how big your gun, it does not good if you don't hit the bear.

At bottom, my purpose of carrying the handgun it to prevent/stop a charge. If I stop the bear with a kill, heavy impact or otherwise, the goal is accomplished. With this goal in mind, and recognizing that under the situation of a bear charge (it happens fast and your chance to aim is dimminished greatly), I have opted for a .410 handgun. My thought process is that I have the best chance of hitting the bear with some part of the shot and stopping the charge, even though almost no chance of killing it. However, a big gun that can kill it (under the reality of a bear charge), I think I would have a much lower chance of actually hitting it at all. As other responders have pointed out, the bear can be dissuated with rocks, spray, etc (not always successfuly). My conclusion is that getting some kind of a hit is the best bet. What are others' thoughts on this philosophy?

 

[crazy_davey]

This thread needs pics!

That one looks similar to mine! Rob do your holster for ya?

 

[Daniel_M]

Depending on the trip and company, I carry a Glock 20 w/ 230gr Double Tap.

 

[pa-pride]

I found myself up a tree with out a rifle last spring with a black bear 7 yards away....good thing i had my .44!!!! My Ruger Redhawk or Glock 29 strapped to my chest makes me feel comfortable when I'm busting through the devils club on my way up to a black bear.

 

[larryschwartz]

Let me start out by saying that I have no experience at all in this arena, but the thread got me to thinking about what would work well. I knew that someone would come up with this one day and I found it. This company , http://www.conceptsinammunition.com/Shotgun_Products/410ga.htm, makes a .410 shot shell with pepper spray in it. i always thought that something like a Judge with .45 rounds mixed with .410 pepper spray would be a good combo to carry for bears in the back country. Relatively light weight, easy to get into action, and it has bullets and pepper spray.

So, am I on to something here or am I totally off the wall on this?

 

[Snyd]

Let me start out by saying that I have no experience at all in this arena, but the thread got me to thinking about what would work well. I knew that someone would come up with this one day and I found it. This company , http://www.conceptsinammunition.com/Shotgun_Products/410ga.htm, makes a .410 shot shell with pepper spray in it. i always thought that something like a Judge with .45 rounds mixed with .410 pepper spray would be a good combo to carry for bears in the back country. Relatively light weight, easy to get into action, and it has bullets and pepper spray.

So, am I on to something here or am I totally off the wall on this?

I say forget the new fangled "fancy stuff" and learn how to shoot a gun and load adequate for the job. If a guy is serious about carrying a handgun for ANY type of protection whether it be 2 or 4 legged critters he needs to shoot a LOT. Nothing fancy, just big ol hunks of lead at 1200fps. These are .452 355gr. I've casted and shot several hundred pounds of these and other weights in my 45 Colts and 454's. 200gr swc's in the 45 acp town gun, 158gr in the 38 snubbie.

Just getting in to the 500 Linebaugh. .513 450gr on the left, .452 355gr is on the right.

 

[larryschwartz]

I wasn't trying to suggest we go with some new fangled device. I thought that this .410 shell would be a good way to solve the problem of not being able to accurately put the pepper spray on the bear because of lack of practice or winds. It seemed like an improved delivery method. It also blends your handgun with your bear spray so you don't have to switch hands.

 

[AK Troutbum]

When fishing I carry a S&W .500 with a 2 3/4" barrel and always have a S/S 12ga. with staggered 00, (sometimes 000) buck shot and slugs in camp.