Who actually makes what? In scopes?

[Southernfried]

I have searched and searched, till I have drove myself mad lol, but who actually makes a scope and sells them? The more I search the more I find that alot are made either by Light Optics Works or Gushin and/or others. I know I have seen videos of Burris scopes being made, but even some of those are made outside of their company, but of all the scope "sellers" who actually makes them? Then sells them? It appears Vortex, Sig, SWFA, NightForce, Bushnell, Tract, Zeiss, Redfield, Arken, Athlon, Crimson Trace, Burris, Steiner are all outsourced at one level or another to different companies and Steiner and Burris are both owned by Beretta and some of the Steiner stuff is made at the Burris plant (according to google) , and I found, Sightron, Trijicon, Leupold, Leica, Schmidt & Bender, (any others) ? All make their own stuff in one plant or another, but it is at least mostly under their own "roof" no matter the company. I know I have missed a ton of scope companies, there are quite alot lol. But have I missed any or got any of these wrong? .............What led me down this rabbit hole was the latest offerings from SWFA and their struggles in the past of keeping up with their product they were selling. It also got me to thinking if so many, use LOW or Gushin, some of the companies have to be "crossbred" on somethings lol I wanted to see who did and sold what lol. This is almost maddening hahahaha......and it is by no means meant to be made into a made in US vs China, Japan etc thread, I just want to know who does what, who are the Fords, Toyotas, Chevys of the scope world? Thanks in advance. Randy

 

[SomeJackassOnAForum]

Swarovski and Kahles, although both of them get the blanks for their lenses from Schott.

 

[LR5Ranger]

I was under the impression that Maven makes their own, but that could just be the marketing.

 

[Southernfried]

Thanks, I will look those up...........from what I could find, Maven has scopes made in San Diego, Lander Wyoming, Philippines, China and Japan.....Google "

• Japan: Maven Optics sources and grinds glass in Japan. The S, B, and RS Series optics use optical components from Japan. The RS Series is assembled in Japan.
• Philippines: The C Series is assembled in the Philippines.
• United States: The S and B Series are assembled in a military standard facility in San Diego, California. The products are then shipped to Maven Optics' headquarters in Lander, Wyoming for quality assurance."

Swarovski according to the Googlenator lol
"Swarovski scopes are made in Austria, except for the Z3 and Z5 series, which are assembled in the United States. The main production site for Swarovski Optik is in Absam, Wattens, on the outskirts of Tyrol, Austria.

Explanation

• Swarovski Optik is an Austrian company that specializes in developing and manufacturing long-range optical instruments.
  
  
• The company's products include binoculars, telescopes, rifle scopes, range finders, and night sight devices.
  
  
• Swarovski Optik is one of the few remaining optics manufacturers in Europe that have not outsourced any of its products outside the country.
  
  
• The company's success is based on its innovative strength, the quality of its products, and their functional and esthetic design"

Kahles is a little confusing, found multiple sources that their binos are made in China and Japan now, but their scopes are made in Austria, and they are a subsidiary of Swarovski....Google says

" While the manufacturing of binoculars has been outsourced to China and Japan, the rifle scopes are completely designed, manufactured, and assembled in-house in the Guntramsdorf factory near Vienna, Austria. Ever since the company was acquired by Swarovski, Kahles has nearly doubled the types of riflescopes it offers...."


Guess everything these days is murky and there may not be any true Fords, Chevys or Toyotas....thanks! This has been interesting for me but Im sure is common knowledge to most on here Im just green at 58 lol

 

[Macintosh]

What are you trying to accomplish by making this distinction?

I ask because I think there’s a false distinction that you’re making in the first place. If you look at almost any outdoor product, except for tiny, tiny boutique brands that do their own sewing in-house, stuff like that, virtually every outdoor product you own is made in factories that are owned by a third-party. Just as an example, only a very small % of the waterproof-breatheable jackets in the world are manufactured by the company that markets them—not OR, not arcteryx, not the north face, not first lite, not kuiu, not patagonia, same for fabric, virtually none actually make or even develop the fabrics used. Ditto for backpacks—most of the top outdoor brands make their packs in the same factory in vietnam. Ditto for footwear. Ditto for fishing waders. Ditto for long underwear, insulating layers, ski poles, flashlights and headlamps, etc, etc, etc, etc. same goes for dozens of different product types in outdoor gear. A company like light optics works provides manufacturing for a whole pile of different companies based on the design and specifications and materials dictated by that company. In some cases a company could buy an open product designed by the manufacturer that isn’t protected by copyrights or anything like that, and there may be some design and development service that a manufacturer can provide, but in most cases the manufacturer is given a spec sheet that includes every detail about the product, hundreds of measurements, material specifications, tolerances, etc, and builds that—they provide a service just like an advertising agency helps them gain new customers, just like an accountant helps them with finances and taxes, and just like a gardener helps them water the plants in their office, just like the plow guy helps keep the parking lot clear in winter—in a lot of cases it makes sense to have a specialist contractor perform a service for you due to the critical mass of resource they can bring to one facet of a business. If you define “who makes a scope” as “who owns and maintains a complete production facility from design and development through raw material acquisition, parts manufacture thru assembly thru packaging thru marketing and sales” my guess is theres not a single company in the world who does it all from start to finish when you think about making scope tubes, lenses, lens coatings and their application, sourcing metals and plastics and making plastic molded parts, metal machined parts, screws, glues, rubber overmolded parts, packaging, testing, etc. So where do you draw the line on when a company actually “makes” scopes? Can they do their own development but outsource design? Or vice versa? Can they design and develop it but have a third party manufacture it? Can they spec it, test a third party design and have the design tweaked based on testing, then have it produced? Etc….and worse, you’ll get different combinations all within the same company and product line.

Really, without sitting down with a product manager at a specific company to get the entire lowdown on where everything comes from every step of the way, you’ll never know the whole story. And yes, companies that do everything in-house are extremely limited in what they can do and how fast they can do it—its why its almost unheard of, and when you find it those companies usually are super low volume boutique brands, or have some frustrating quirks that people dont understand.

Edit: “assembled in xxxxx by zzzzz” tells you a significant but very small part of who “made” the acope

 

[ElDiablito]

Have you looked through this database?

The Optics Database - SageRatSafaris.com

Optic Brands Click a brand name below to view all firearm optics offered by a brand, with reticles, street prices, features, and links to official brand product pages, merchants, and reviews. Brand Optics Warranty ACME Machine 0 Warranty covers defects, term varies by product from 1-year to...

sageratsafaris.com

 

[ElPollo]

I have searched and searched, till I have drove myself mad lol, but who actually makes a scope and sells them? The more I search the more I find that alot are made either by Light Optics Works or Gushin and/or others. I know I have seen videos of Burris scopes being made, but even some of those are made outside of their company, but of all the scope "sellers" who actually makes them? Then sells them? It appears Vortex, Sig, SWFA, NightForce, Bushnell, Tract, Zeiss, Redfield, Arken, Athlon, Crimson Trace, Burris, Steiner are all outsourced at one level or another to different companies and Steiner and Burris are both owned by Beretta and some of the Steiner stuff is made at the Burris plant (according to google) , and I found, Sightron, Trijicon, Leupold, Leica, Schmidt & Bender, (any others) ? All make their own stuff in one plant or another, but it is at least mostly under their own "roof" no matter the company. I know I have missed a ton of scope companies, there are quite alot lol. But have I missed any or got any of these wrong? .............What led me down this rabbit hole was the latest offerings from SWFA and their struggles in the past of keeping up with their product they were selling. It also got me to thinking if so many, use LOW or Gushin, some of the companies have to be "crossbred" on somethings lol I wanted to see who did and sold what lol. This is almost maddening hahahaha......and it is by no means meant to be made into a made in US vs China, Japan etc thread, I just want to know who does what, who are the Fords, Toyotas, Chevys of the scope world? Thanks in advance. Randy

Was this one of your sources?

The Optics Database - SageRatSafaris.com

Optic Brands Click a brand name below to view all firearm optics offered by a brand, with reticles, street prices, features, and links to official brand product pages, merchants, and reviews. Brand Optics Warranty ACME Machine 0 Warranty covers defects, term varies by product from 1-year to...

sageratsafaris.com

 

[jfk69]

What are you trying to accomplish by making this distinction?

I ask because I think there’s a false distinction that you’re making in the first place. If you look at almost any outdoor product, except for tiny, tiny boutique brands that do their own sewing in-house, stuff like that, virtually every outdoor product you own is made in factories that are owned by a third-party. Just as an example, only a very small % of the waterproof-breatheable jackets in the world are manufactured by the company that markets them—not OR, not arcteryx, not the north face, not first lite, not kuiu, not patagonia, same for fabric, virtually none actually make or even develop the fabrics used. Ditto for backpacks—most of the top outdoor brands make their packs in the same factory in vietnam. Ditto for footwear. Ditto for fishing waders. Ditto for long underwear, insulating layers, ski poles, flashlights and headlamps, etc, etc, etc, etc. same goes for dozens of different product types in outdoor gear. A company like light optics works provides manufacturing for a whole pile of different companies based on the design and specifications and materials dictated by that company. In some cases a company could buy an open product designed by the manufacturer that isn’t protected by copyrights or anything like that, and there may be some design and development service that a manufacturer can provide, but in most cases the manufacturer is given a spec sheet that includes every detail about the product, hundreds of measurements, material specifications, tolerances, etc, and builds that—they provide a service just like an advertising agency helps them gain new customers, just like an accountant helps them with finances and taxes, and just like a gardener helps them water the plants in their office, just like the plow guy helps keep the parking lot clear in winter—in a lot of cases it makes sense to have a specialist contractor perform a service for you due to the critical mass of resource they can bring to one facet of a business. If you define “who makes a scope” as “who owns and maintains a complete production facility from design and development through raw material acquisition, parts manufacture thru assembly thru packaging thru marketing and sales” my guess is theres not a single company in the world who does it all from start to finish when you think about making scope tubes, lenses, lens coatings and their application, sourcing metals and plastics and making plastic molded parts, metal machined parts, screws, glues, rubber overmolded parts, packaging, testing, etc. So where do you draw the line on when a company actually “makes” scopes? Can they do their own development but outsource design? Or vice versa? Can they design and develop it but have a third party manufacture it? Can they spec it, test a third party design and have the design tweaked based on testing, then have it produced? Etc….and worse, you’ll get different combinations all within the same company and product line.

Really, without sitting down with a product manager at a specific company to get the entire lowdown on where everything comes from every step of the way, you’ll never know the whole story. And yes, companies that do everything in-house are extremely limited in what they can do and how fast they can do it—its why its almost unheard of, and when you find it those companies usually are super low volume boutique brands, or have some frustrating quirks that people dont understand.

Holy wall of text Batman! Kidding aside, you make some great points, but paragraphs are your friend lol….

 

[Macintosh]

Sorry, I write too much. Feel free to edit and repost, talk to text on a phone isnt the best tool to get an idea across.

 

[jfk69]

Feel free to edit and repost, talk to text on a phone isnt the best tool to get an idea across.

Lol. The last thing on earth I am, or want to be, is an editor. I get the phone thing man. Mine messes with me constantly.

 

[Balderdash]

The majority of extant optics marketing companies follow a similar model: Low end scopes - China; mid grade - Philippines and S Korea; Higher end - Japan. This isn't to imply a level of equivalence between the name brands, because the source companies all build to spec. It's also not to say that the scopes from China, Philippines, and Korea aren't reliable or that they don't compete favorably with higher end glass, because some of them have proved to be pretty solid units for a lot of folks through the years, it's just to state where the price tiers generally play into origin.

A handfull of companies actually build and market their own product, but even most of these outsource some of their lines and or a fair amount of components. Doesnt usually take too much digging these days to find out where a specific model is being made and/or assembled.

One company I didn't see mentioned so far in this discussion is Meopta. They are an in house manufacturer. They've also made a lot of scopes and parts for other optics companies. I know their NA operations are a bit up in the air right now, but I hope they find their stride again. Not always the best reticles IMO, but several of their scopes have done well for me over a lot of years. I especially like their binos and spotters and think they compare favorably with alpha level European glass.

 

[Southernfried]

What are you trying to accomplish by making this distinction?

I ask because I think there’s a false distinction that you’re making in the first place. If you look at almost any outdoor product, except for tiny, tiny boutique brands that do their own sewing in-house, stuff like that, virtually every outdoor product you own is made in factories that are owned by a third-party. Just as an example, only a very small % of the waterproof-breatheable jackets in the world are manufactured by the company that markets them—not OR, not arcteryx, not the north face, not first lite, not kuiu, not patagonia, same for fabric, virtually none actually make or even develop the fabrics used. Ditto for backpacks—most of the top outdoor brands make their packs in the same factory in vietnam. Ditto for footwear. Ditto for fishing waders. Ditto for long underwear, insulating layers, ski poles, flashlights and headlamps, etc, etc, etc, etc. same goes for dozens of different product types in outdoor gear. A company like light optics works provides manufacturing for a whole pile of different companies based on the design and specifications and materials dictated by that company. In some cases a company could buy an open product designed by the manufacturer that isn’t protected by copyrights or anything like that, and there may be some design and development service that a manufacturer can provide, but in most cases the manufacturer is given a spec sheet that includes every detail about the product, hundreds of measurements, material specifications, tolerances, etc, and builds that—they provide a service just like an advertising agency helps them gain new customers, just like an accountant helps them with finances and taxes, and just like a gardener helps them water the plants in their office, just like the plow guy helps keep the parking lot clear in winter—in a lot of cases it makes sense to have a specialist contractor perform a service for you due to the critical mass of resource they can bring to one facet of a business. If you define “who makes a scope” as “who owns and maintains a complete production facility from design and development through raw material acquisition, parts manufacture thru assembly thru packaging thru marketing and sales” my guess is theres not a single company in the world who does it all from start to finish when you think about making scope tubes, lenses, lens coatings and their application, sourcing metals and plastics and making plastic molded parts, metal machined parts, screws, glues, rubber overmolded parts, packaging, testing, etc. So where do you draw the line on when a company actually “makes” scopes? Can they do their own development but outsource design? Or vice versa? Can they design and develop it but have a third party manufacture it? Can they spec it, test a third party design and have the design tweaked based on testing, then have it produced? Etc….and worse, you’ll get different combinations all within the same company and product line.

Really, without sitting down with a product manager at a specific company to get the entire lowdown on where everything comes from every step of the way, you’ll never know the whole story. And yes, companies that do everything in-house are extremely limited in what they can do and how fast they can do it—its why its almost unheard of, and when you find it those companies usually are super low volume boutique brands, or have some frustrating quirks that people dont understand.

Edit: “assembled in xxxxx by zzzzz” tells you a significant but very small part of who “made” the acope

All I was trying to accomplish is learning, in how all these companies put together a product. Ive been in manufacturing going on my 30th year (nonwovens facility) and yes like you stated, we buy raw materials from different companies and then put it together on our lines. Some from other countries as well. I was just trying to discern if the optic companies were more like the firearm companies, the company I work at, or vice versa. Just strictly a "learning" procedure on my part, and yes your points are extremely valid in this day and age of manufacturing. Not trying to draw a line anywhere, just to learn, thanks for your thoughtful and inciteful reply, makes a ton of sense. Kind of like when we were owned by the big red oval (DuPont) we bought a majority of our raw materials from other DuPont sites, here in the US. Over the last 30 years as other business failed, sites were sold, and we were ultimately sold in 2014, we began purchasing our raw materials from several different places, pretty much as I see, all of the manufactures in the outdoor business are doing it to some level as well. Thanks again I appreciate it.

 

[Southernfried]

Have you looked through this database?

The Optics Database - SageRatSafaris.com

Optic Brands Click a brand name below to view all firearm optics offered by a brand, with reticles, street prices, features, and links to official brand product pages, merchants, and reviews. Brand Optics Warranty ACME Machine 0 Warranty covers defects, term varies by product from 1-year to...

sageratsafaris.com

Thanks! no I have not.

 

[TaperPin]

Not related to where they are made, but I found it really cool that Maven has a 2 week demo program to let someone try a pair of gently used binoculars or spotting scope for a couple weeks, keep it, return it for the same new model or different model. That’s cool.

 

[Southernfried]

Was this one of your sources?

The Optics Database - SageRatSafaris.com

Optic Brands Click a brand name below to view all firearm optics offered by a brand, with reticles, street prices, features, and links to official brand product pages, merchants, and reviews. Brand Optics Warranty ACME Machine 0 Warranty covers defects, term varies by product from 1-year to...

sageratsafaris.com

LOL no, I just literally went to google and typed in XXXX scope is made where lol

 

[Southernfried]

It is kind of funny, in todays manufacturing world, I have seen tons of perceptions change. Since our plant and company does ship the world over, including China, Japan, Europe etc., in my 30 years of making a product as a line manager, our strictest, tightest, cant screw around with tolerances, have been for our Chinese and Japanese customers. They have always demanded the highest quality product that we can make. Yet for generations here, we feel what we get from them is crap. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isnt. No different in what we make and export. Thanks again for all the replies!