White Mountain Apache- be aware

[ganguscows]

My butler , Jeeves , said he doubts they would accept a client with a butler named after a cigarette . So tacky , in Jeeves opinion .

RIP to Jeeves

 

[trophyhill]

Save yourself some $ and go unguided and do all the work and hunting yourself for crying out loud. I get so tired of guys complaining about outfitters because they are too lazy and not tough enough to handle the elkwoods without someone else doing it for them. I don’t know why people think that just because you hire an outfitter that success is guaranteed. You still have to give the guide something to work with…….

 

[ReaptheHeat]

Save yourself some $ and go unguided and do all the work and hunting yourself for crying out loud. I get so tired of guys complaining about outfitters because they are too lazy and not tough enough to handle the elkwoods without someone else doing it for them. I don’t know why people think that just because you hire an outfitter that success is guaranteed. You still have to give the guide something to work with…….

I think a guide makes sense to learn, to use stock, new state/country, required or help with packing out.

 

[ManyBullets]

The only thing that would make this better is if he got one and then someone stole his BOAL...

 

[fulldraw1972]

Wow $260,000+ in hunts!
OP how do you want the outfitter to make it up to you?
I hope it’s not a free hunt. That would be the last thing I would want from them after not seeing a single animal that can be harvested among 14 to 16 hunters. Let alone almost getting killed by their negligence.
There was plenty of red flags that should have been seen when booking this hunt in the first place.

 

[HookUp]

Im glad money rarely buy success on hunting. Makes me feel good. thanks for sharing.

 

[trophyhill]

I think a guide makes sense to learn, to use stock, new state/country, required or help with packing out.

I have nothing against guides or any who use them. It’s the guys who don’t give the guides anything to work with then go on the forums and piss and moan. It’s still hunting and the hunter has to be prepared and do his part. For all I know, this guy is fat, out of shape and couldn’t keep up. And probably had a bad attitude with the guide and thinks using a guide is a guarantee on top of that. That’s not on the guide………..

 

[JimTom]

What a crazy story. I wonder why the guide had to take off and leave them. That’s a lot of money to leave a client.

 

[RdRdrFan]

I hunted White Mountain a coupe of years ago on a trophy elk hunt. I didn’t get left on the mountain but most everything else that the OP said doesn’t surprise me at all and matches up fairly closely with my experience. I believe we had 8 hunters on the trophy hunt in our camp (can’t remember if it was 8 or more). Killed one trophy bull in our camp. I was on the second trophy hunt. I believe that in the first trophy hunt they had the same number of hunters and they may have killed one bull on that hunt. That kind of kill opportunity % isn’t acceptable IMO for a rifle rut hunt.

If someone is seriously considering this hunt then feel free to reach out. I’m happy to have a phone call and go into more detail on my experience. But if you work for a living and don’t have a money tree in your backyard that allows you to waste money, you might consider other options.

 

[Stache Attack]

Dang, good to know. Hope you get a better go on your next trip. Thank you for letting us all know

 

[One300wsm]

Definitely need a lot more details but I think you are overestimating most peoples abilities (especially those who do guided hunts). A lot of the reservations are pretty remote though and there is always shenanigans when dealing with them.

The Op stated he was “USMC” with that training alone he should have been out in 24 hours minimum. I have Cat hunted the White Mountains around the reservation in January at zero degrees and anywhere from 10” to 24” of snow. I’ve also hunted the Frank Church 2.5 million acres and The White Mountain Apache Reservation is about 1.5 million but all of the Apache Reservations together in that area is 2.5 million acres it’s a huge area, but there’s roads everywhere. Now if the Op had broken his leg I would be more inclined to believe his story. So I’m calling on being stranded he should have walked out and kicked that Apaches for leaving him. Now as far as the quality of the hunt I can’t say, but if I’m going to spend $25k I’m going to find out before I book the hunt not after. Besides that I’m not paying $25K to shoot an Elk.
Attached: White Mountain Apache Reservation in Red. Also A Cat my wife took in that area.

 

[Next Ridge]

Shooting an 8 year old 5x5 (however one can determine it is 8 years old…) or a 385+ seems like a small needle to thread, probably not that many that fit those criteria.

Boone and Crockett State and Provincial Big Game Records

Whether you’re looking for record-book whitetail deer or the biggest moose to come out of your state, look no further. Here, you can search the Boone and Crockett database for state and provincial records for big game from Alaska to Mexico.

www.boone-crockett.org

 

[RdRdrFan]

Shooting an 8 year old 5x5 (however one can determine it is 8 years old…) or a 385+ seems like a small needle to thread, probably not that many that fit those criteria.

Boone and Crockett State and Provincial Big Game Records

Whether you’re looking for record-book whitetail deer or the biggest moose to come out of your state, look no further. Here, you can search the Boone and Crockett database for state and provincial records for big game from Alaska to Mexico.

www.boone-crockett.org

Unless they changed it last year the minimum on the trophy hunt is a mature bill, minimum 350”.

Goal is definitely higher but that is their minimum for the trophy hunt.

What they said when I was there when they discussed the management hunts was a mature 5x5. No specific minimum age.

For where they are, what they charge and calling themselves the Elk Capital of the World, the success rates definitely should be higher.

 

[Lowell]

Unless they changed it last year the minimum on the trophy hunt is a mature bill, minimum 350”.

Goal is definitely higher but that is their minimum for the trophy hunt.

What they said when I was there when they discussed the management hunts was a mature 5x5. No specific minimum age.

For where they are, what they charge and calling themselves the Elk Capital of the World, the success rates definitely should be higher.

it was 20, 30 years ago.

 

[WCB]

Save yourself some $ and go unguided and do all the work and hunting yourself for crying out loud. I get so tired of guys complaining about outfitters because they are too lazy and not tough enough to handle the elkwoods without someone else doing it for them. I don’t know why people think that just because you hire an outfitter that success is guaranteed. You still have to give the guide something to work with…….

Yeah...a guys dream hunt is wilderness, horseback, wall tents. WTF man just learn stock, buy all the tack, a truck, a trailer, tents, stoves, learn to pack, etc. Man you are one lazy sob.

Hey guy that only gets 2 weeks off a year and has a family. Go scout across the country once every 2-3 years when you get a tag and learn how to elk hunt by yourself. 8 years you'll have 1 month total in the elk woods...should be plenty of time.

People use guides for all sorts of reasons. I was a guide for horse back elk hunts...killed an elk and moose in Alberta on a guided hunt. Too bad I'm not tough enough to be in the elk woods.

The last part I agree with people expecting guaranteed success...but to say guys that go outfitted aren't "tough" enough his funny.

 

[kscowboy01]

Yeah...a guys dream hunt is wilderness, horseback, wall tents. WTF man just learn stock, buy all the tack, a truck, a trailer, tents, stoves, learn to pack, etc. Man you are one lazy sob.

Hey guy that only gets 2 weeks off a year and has a family. Go scout across the country once every 2-3 years when you get a tag and learn how to elk hunt by yourself. 8 years you'll have 1 month total in the elk woods...should be plenty of time.

People use guides for all sorts of reasons. I was a guide for horse back elk hunts...killed an elk and moose in Alberta on a guided hunt. Too bad I'm not tough enough to be in the elk woods.

The last part I agree with people expecting guaranteed success...but to say guys that go outfitted aren't "tough" enough his funny.

Family obligations is what would make me go the outfitted route. I’ve killed a lot of bulls solo with all 3 weapons but if I draw a premier Western unit, I’m strongly considering it.

Reminds me of the quote, “Show me a someone who is a good golfer and I’ll show you someone that a bad husband, bad employee, or both.”

 

[cole96]

Yeah...a guys dream hunt is wilderness, horseback, wall tents. WTF man just learn stock, buy all the tack, a truck, a trailer, tents, stoves, learn to pack, etc. Man you are one lazy sob.

Hey guy that only gets 2 weeks off a year and has a family. Go scout across the country once every 2-3 years when you get a tag and learn how to elk hunt by yourself. 8 years you'll have 1 month total in the elk woods...should be plenty of time.

People use guides for all sorts of reasons. I was a guide for horse back elk hunts...killed an elk and moose in Alberta on a guided hunt. Too bad I'm not tough enough to be in the elk woods.

The last part I agree with people expecting guaranteed success...but to say guys that go outfitted aren't "tough" enough his funny.

I agree. I think everyone dreams of the diy. But for most easterners it is just hard to spend the time really needed for success due to limited time off and logistics. I am going outfitted for now with two toddlers at home but will soon transition to diy. I am self employed and am fortunate to have generous off time. But just because it’s outfitted people need to realize that success is no guarantee regardless of how much it costs

 

[RockAndSage]

But for most easterners it is just hard to spend the time really needed for success due to limited time off and logistics.

Similar problem for a lot of people who live out West too, that you can see in draw odds - the zones within a few hours of major cities tend to be a lot harder to get drawn in than those out in the middle of nowhere. The logistics of going from, say, Las Vegas or Reno out to hunt in central Nevada aren't really that different from travelling out of state. It's still a full day's travel and setup, more or less. So if someone doesn't have the camping gear and the willingness to expedition travel, they're going to be applying for day-drive hunts. All that gets amplfied even further for a serious hunter, especially for something like mule deer, where you really need to plan on scouting as much as hunting if you want DIY success for anything really notable. Time and logistics drive a lot of guys to outfitters.

 

[cole96]

Similar problem for a lot of people who live out West too, that you can see in draw odds - the zones within a few hours of major cities tend to be a lot harder to get drawn in than those out in the middle of nowhere. The logistics of going from, say, Las Vegas or Reno out to hunt in central Nevada aren't really that different from travelling out of state. It's still a full day's travel and setup, more or less. So if someone doesn't have the camping gear and the willingness to expedition travel, they're going to be applying for day-drive hunts. All that gets amplfied even further for a serious hunter, especially for something like mule deer, where you really need to plan on scouting as much as hunting if you want DIY success for anything really notable. Time and logistics drive a lot of guys to outfitters.

All of that makes sense as well. But doing that you learn a lot so whenever you jump to diy you’re not just completely green

 

[RockAndSage]

All of that makes sense as well. But doing that you learn a lot so whenever you jump to diy you’re not just completely green

Man, from a learning perspective, a rookie in any hunt could learn a metric ton from a good outfitter on one hunt. Definitely great prep in graduating to DIY.