White Mountain Apache- be aware

G

GatorMike

FNG
Joined
Oct 15, 2019
Messages
71
I hunted the WMAT Sunrise Camp in Sept 2025...this place is a SCAM!!! We had 14-16 hunters in camp..half were 25k "Trophy 385+ Bull hunters" and the rest were "Management" bull hunters for 10k...NOT A SINGLE HUNTER in any camp harvested a bull or even had a shot...that is ridiculous for what they call "the greatest elk hunting on earth"...you will see a lot of Elk but they will only allow you to harvest an 8 year old 5x5 on management and nobody even saw a single bull that fit that description...the "Trophy hunters" not a single one saw anything that was over 385 and none harvested in Sunrise or the other camp. They basically take your money knowing that you will see a lot of elk but that very few will harvest anything. The accommodations were adequate, but I have stayed in better at lower priced hunting camps...the food was good.....my biggest issue with them is their lack of integrity and complete disregard for any accountability whatsoever. Their guide abandoned myself and another tribal member at the top of a mountain on the morning of day 3...we had no food or water and we were soaked from a hail/rain storm...went hypothermic for 2 days in 30 degree temps...when they found us via Thermal Helicopter at 230am as were were entering day 3...I had some internal organ issues from the hypothermia...they rushed us to the hospital. The head guide Wayne Amos sat by my bedside as the doctors were working on me and promised "I will make this right"..then after I was released from the hospital and we had a dinner on the final night he pulled me aside as did another member of the tribe and again shook my hand and promised they would bring me back for another hunt and to invite a friend as their way of "making it right"...they are LIARS...from what the WMAT investigator told me during the investigation, multiple tribe members LIED by saying they informed my wife that I was missing in the mountains...when I got home I asked my wife and she did not have a single call/text/email (which I shared with the WMAT investigator) per my emergency contact sheet and our local police came to my door at 330am EST and told her I was missing for several days and it may turn into a recovery mission if they don't find me soon and she thought I was dead. For the Tribe to LIE to their own investogator about notifying next of kin is absolutely unacceptable. Six months later I reached out to Wayne and he responded with a nasty email and of course he as the head of the hunt camp took ZERO responsibility for his clear lack of leadership for his hunting operation that he is in charge of. We are both military veterans and he even questioned my USMC military service although we had many discussions in camp about our time in service and the multiple service connected surgeries I have had. Wayne seems like a very nice guy when you talk to him at first, but make no mistake...he is a salesman and will not keep his word. Other hunters from camp reached out to me to see how I was recovering due to the injuries I sustained at WMAT and not a single member of the tribe ever called to see how I was...they did call to interview me for the investigation that was ongoing with local rescue law enforcement authorities as well as WMAT investigators. I have had over 20 medical appointments due to the ongoing issues I have from the hypothermia and WMAT takes ZERO accountability....they did however change their Hunting Operation SOP due to what happened to me. Make no mistake...the Tribe will look out for themselves and only themselves at WMAT and they could care less about any hunters as the other hunters I became friendly with that have hunted there for years have also gotten ignored (per them) since this happened. I do feel bad for the other hunters as WMAT refuses to compensate any of the other hunters that could not hunt due to the multi day rescue searches and these guys paid 10-25k and it was 100% the fault of the WMAT...but those guys got screwed too which is unacceptable for any outfitter, let alone one that claims to be the "Elk Hunting Capitol of the World." What really sucks is the Apache tribe is the ONLY tribe in the US that you cannot take legal action against because they are the only tribe (per attorneys) that will not release their protection of sovereignty from the US Government...this means they can literally kill you and nothing will be done about it (per attorneys from CA, OK, TX, AZ). If you want to fall for their "Elk hunting capitol of the World" best of luck to you...since I was rescued I have been advised that they had another hunter in camp that they also lost in the mountains and he was injured by a gunshot and they luckily found him before he died.....It is disgusting how this operation takes your money knowing they do not have the animals for hunters to harvest as proven by not a single bull from this camp in 2025.
 
Baddog said:
Holy cow quite the story
Click to expand...
that is only a fraction of it.....it was WAAAAAY worse...and I gave them 6 months to make it right...and they do not care about any hunters..I feel bad for the other hunters that were in camp...their remaining 3 days were a total loss due to the search and rescue...and the tribe refuses to refund or give a complimentary hunt for THEIR F-UP...they see us hunters as a payday and that is it.
 
Willl say this is way out of my price range regardless ever, I’m guessing though since it’s reservation that you cannot technically sue or anything which can give them a free pass on whatever they do?

That absolutely sucks for you that all that happened though, I’m glad you made it out alive regardless that’s the most important thing but they put you in a very bad situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
I had a friend hunt there for 10 years, he won’t go back. Said they got greedy and shot it out with to
many hunters. With that said I’ve never hunted so it’s all hearsay on my part
 
BAKPAKR said:
Wow, you have bad luck with guides.
Click to expand...

BigAntlerGetter said:
Willl say this is way out of my price range regardless ever, I’m guessing though since it’s reservation that you cannot technically sue or anything which can give them a free pass on whatever they do?

That absolutely sucks for you that all that happened though, I’m glad you made it out alive regardless that’s the most important thing but they put you in a very bad situation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Bingo...it just shitty how they treat people and they clearly could care less...just money hungry tribe with zero accountability
 
It doesn’t sound like there was a shortage of elk. Just nothing small enough for you or big enough for the trophy hunters. I know an outfit that takes bulls over 390. On a good year. Lots of factors go into antler growth. Some years they get nothing over 340. Did you do your homework and speak to references? For that kind of money I would have spoken to lots of them.
 
Indian Summer said:
It doesn’t sound like there was a shortage of elk. Just nothing small enough for you or big enough for the trophy hunters. I know an outfit that takes bulls over 390. On a good year. Lots of factors go into antler growth. Some years they get nothing over 340. Did you do your homework and speak to references? For that kind of money I would have spoken to lots of them.
Click to expand...
Yes...they are VERY particular about what you are allowed to shoot...and NONE of the bugs we saw fit that criteria....dont get me wrong...there are some nice bulls..but if you see a bull..the guide needs to send a photo of the bull and the head guide needs to say ok to shoot...by that time the bull is gone ...we did not see any "Trophy" 385 plus bulls....and not a single hunter saw a 8 yr old 5x5...and yes I researched extensively...apparently it used to be a solid place to hunt...now its alot of Elk...but none they allow you to shoot
 
GatorMike said:
Yes...they are VERY particular about what you are allowed to shoot...and NONE of the bugs we saw fit that criteria....dont get me wrong...there are some nice bulls..but if you see a bull..the guide needs to send a photo of the bull and the head guide needs to say ok to shoot...by that time the bull is gone ...we did not see any "Trophy" 385 plus bulls....and not a single hunter saw a 8 yr old 5x5...and yes I researched extensively...apparently it used to be a solid place to hunt...now its alot of Elk...but none they allow you to shoot
Click to expand...
Permissions via text is insane. I will spread the word.
 
Nightmare story
I'm sure they were disappointed you were hospitalized. They couldn't get you in a casino after the hunt.

How much do you tip a guide that almost kills you?

I hope you post this every place that tribal hunting is even mentioned

Sovereign nation bs prevents any recourse.
 
OP, glad you made it out and seems like a hard lesson learned. I'll never afford a hunt like that and guided isn't really my thing anyway but I appreciate you giving people a heads up to help the community avoid such things. Can you detail a little more about the guide abandoning you on the mountain? That's wild and I'm curious how it went down. Sure glad you made it out of there.
Also curious if you paid with a CC if you can dispute the charges?
 
I’ll echo the above comment. How the heck did they leave you on the mountain? Were you supposed to spike out? Did they think you were self sufficient when they left? All around bummer of a story and glad you made it out of there intact. Things go south quickly when hypothermia sets in.
 
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