Where Do you Draw the Permethrin Line?

[ResearchinStuff]

Imo socks and underwear are the most important things to treat, that's where ticks are really trying to get. Just let the stuff air dry before you wear it.

 

[BuckSmasher]

I'm in the process of treating all my gear with Permethrin for some upcoming bear backpack hunts in Idaho and wondering how far you go.

My base layers, hoody, pants, socks, boots (will respray before packing in), hats, backpack and borah bivy (exterior) are all done..

Should I treat gaiters, tipi (going floorless), down sleeping bag, down insulation?

Not trying to make a federal project out of this, but I've had lymes twice. Once really bad with a pick in my arm for some time. I know the importance of regular tick checks. Anyway, treating waterproof things seems overkill/useless and I'm not sure if chemically treating down is a good idea in general. Or necessary especially when everything else I'm wearing is treated.

I wouldn't go floorless. Absolutely would treat gaiters. Not sure about the bag? But again wouldn't go floorless. Not sure I on socks and baselayers either. Permethrin on your skin can't be great. FWIW I went on a fly in Frank bear hunt two years ago and successfully kept them off me with exterior garments treated, a tent with a floor, and, this is super critical, early and often tick checks coupled with avoiding/minimizing tall wet grass vegetation walks. Ticks didn't seem too bad on a lot of the drier slopes, wet creekside walks were we experienced them.

What part of Idaho are you hunting? Some people complain about them up here but in N. Idaho I have seen VERY few ticks. For some reason seem to be worse further south.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Been doing it for years with no problems.

Base layers, top layers, socks, truck seat covers, the "dog couch" cushions.

Permethrin is cheap, Lyme changes lives in really negative ways.

Throw it through the wash. It'll clear up the smell and it still works fine

I hunted in Sproul state forest, central PA end of October 2019. I have spent a large amount of my time outdoors all over the world. I have NEVER, EVER seen ticks like that. I love central PA, it is very pretty, and had been on few trips before that hiking and stuff and seen a few but nothing like that fall it was pestilence Exodus level nightmare fuel bad. When the pandemic hit a few months later and our jobs went fully remote and we started thinking about leaving Texas for a four seasons climate with public land PA was scratched off the list in large part due to ticks.

 

[Gooden123]

@BuckSmasher

Awesome thanks for the advice. I'll be in north 23 from 5/15 - 5/25. Or packing out sooner if I kill.

Too late for base layers. They're treated. I'll be sleeping in this bivy so it's not like I'll be totally exposed. Possibly better than a bathtub floor if you keep it zipped up at all times. Weighs 4.5 oz and packs to nothing.

 

[BuckSmasher]

@BuckSmasher

Awesome thanks for the advice. I'll be in north 23 from 5/15 - 5/25. Or packing out sooner if I kill.

Too late for base layers. They're treated. Even InsectShield recommends sending socks and underwear. They treat clothes with permethrin for you and you pay by the pound. Some logging companies use them. I'll be sleeping in this bivy so it's not like I'll be totally exposed. Possibly better than a bathtub floor if you keep it zipped up at all times. Weighs 4.5 oz and packs to nothing.

Spent a fair amount of time just across the river in 14 bear hunting. Pretty country. Let us know how you do! Are you a resident? Get a lion tag either way, people always see lions when they don't have tags.

 

[Gooden123]

Spent a fair amount of time just across the river in 14 bear hunting. Pretty country. Let us know how you do! Are you a resident? Get a lion tag either way, people always see lions when they don't have tags.

Nice! I looked at 14 and 18 too. I'm coming in from NJ actually, but packing in with a resident and his llamas from his dry cabin. Can't wait! I still need to get a wolf tag and probably will get lion too if it's OTC. There was something going on with the state system when I was trying to buy them a couple months back and no predator tags were listed. Thanks for the reminder!

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

You can wear permethrin treated clothes next to skin once they have completely dried.

So yes, I do baselayers, pants, mid-layers and the leafy suit. Puffies don't get it, but my softshell does.

Borah bivy if in a floorless shelter, or I keep the nest in my Durston. Don't treat any of that.

 

[Gooden123]

You can wear permethrin treated clothes next to skin once they have completely dried.

So yes, I do baselayers, pants, mid-layers and the leafy suit. Puffies don't get it, but my softshell does.

Borah bivy if in a floorless shelter, or I keep the nest in my Durston. Don't treat any of that.

Thanks I just read the bottle and it says 'do not treat underwear, caps, hats or inner garments'.

I've been using the stuff for ages and never knew that lol. A lot of times my base layer tops are my outer layer in the early season. And it says to do your socks which are next to skin. I'm just chalking that up as some may have a reaction in more sensitive areas.

I'm not treating my borah bivy. Mostly because I think it's a waste since it's waterproof enough that I'm not sure permethrin will even absorb.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Thanks I just read the bottle and it says 'do not treat underwear, caps, hats or inner garments'.

I've been using the stuff for ages and never knew that lol. A lot of times my base layer tops are my outer layer in the early season. And it says to do your socks which are next to skin. I'm just chalking that up as some may have a reaction in more sensitive areas.

I'm not treating my borah bivy. Mostly because I think it's a waste since it's waterproof enough that I'm not sure permethrin will even absorb.

With the sprays I think they're extra risk averse in their warnings/instructions.

I don't do socks. I just tuck my treated pants into my boots.

Only tick I've had on my skin the last 3 years since doing that and the soaking method with a 0.5% dilution of Martin's 10% was when I jumped out of the truck in crocks to glass for a bit unwisely in some tall grass. Went to put my boots back on and that sucker was on my shin.

Flicked plenty off my pants though. They never seem to make it above the knee.

 

[Gooden123]

With the sprays I think they're extra risk averse in their warnings/instructions.

I don't do socks. I just tuck my treated pants into my boots.

Only tick I've had on my skin the last 3 years since doing that and the soaking method with a 0.5% dilution of Martin's 10% was when I jumped out of the truck in crocks to glass for a bit unwisely in some tall grass. Went to put my boots back on and that sucker was on my shin.

Flicked plenty off my pants though. They never seem to make it above the knee.

Oh good you confirmed it's Martin's that I need. I just returned Gordon's because folks on the web say it stinks bad. Supposedly that has some kind of petroleum base and Martin's is straight water based but couldn't find a clean answer.

The ratio for 10% concentrate to get it to 0.5% like Sawyers is 19:1 if anyone else reads this. Probably obvious but I suck at math

 

[sbaker0029]

I'm unsure of what the differences between the spray and cream are exactly, but permethrin 5% topical cream is applied directly to the skin and is used to treat lice and scabies.
Must be something else in the spray solution that's not good for the skin.

When I was a pharmacy tech there was a guy that would have his doctor precribe the cream so he could use it turkey hunting.

 

[cuerro viejo]

Oh good you confirmed it's Martin's that I need. I just returned Gordon's because folks on the web say it stinks bad. Supposedly that has some kind of petroleum base and Martin's is straight water based but couldn't find a clean answer.

The ratio for 10% concentrate to get it to 0.5% like Sawyers is 19:1 if anyone else reads this. Probably obvious but I suck at math

It’s stinks for a day and then dissipates, so either way you are fine. I use the 36.8 % and dillute down, Hang everything outside for a day and then all is good.

 

[sshhh]

Seen someone mention tucking pants into boots, I used too. But now I tuck my pants in my socks tie my boots up then on go the all green gators so the ticks stand out better. I have way more mobility with my pants tucked into socks rather than boots, and unlike boots when the pants are tucked into socks they have never come out once no matter what i'm climbing. Simple but way better for me thought i'd share.

So what does permithin do exactly, it repels them extremely or it harms/kills them too? Ive known about it for years and its pretty well the most effective iirc but not exactly sure what it does/it's function.

 

[SteveAndTheCrigBoys]

Oh good you confirmed it's Martin's that I need. I just returned Gordon's because folks on the web say it stinks bad. Supposedly that has some kind of petroleum base and Martin's is straight water based but couldn't find a clean answer.

The ratio for 10% concentrate to get it to 0.5% like Sawyers is 19:1 if anyone else reads this. Probably obvious but I suck at math

Yep, there's some more conversation about it in this thread. My buddy is borrowing some Martins for the same reason. His brother bought the Gordon's and treated his clothes. Called me a few days later to borrow the Martin's.

I like the following recipe. It's enough for ~15 pieces of clothing.

3 Gallons of water (384 oz) mixed with 20oz of 10% Martin's permethrin for a 0.5% dilution. Soak for 2-3 hours. Spin cycle in the washer then hang dry.

I throw a dinner plate and downrigger ball on top and agitate a few times during the soak.

 

[Jpsmith1]

I hunted in Sproul state forest, central PA end of October 2019. I have spent a large amount of my time outdoors all over the world. I have NEVER, EVER seen ticks like that. I love central PA, it is very pretty, and had been on few trips before that hiking and stuff and seen a few but nothing like that fall it was pestilence Exodus level nightmare fuel bad. When the pandemic hit a few months later and our jobs went fully remote and we started thinking about leaving Texas for a four seasons climate with public land PA was scratched off the list in large part due to ticks.

Yes. Pennsylvania is a bad state for ticks, but the last embedded tick I had was in 2006 from Elk County when I drew a cow tag.

I built and refined a routine and I spend a TON of time in heavily tick infested woods and I never get ticks. Just never. I spent a day in the Elk state forest last month and no ticks.

I mix 10% permethrin to 0.5% in a garden sprayer. I spray my stuff down 4 or 5 times a year, always before seasons of heavier use. I wet just to the point of dripping and allow to dry, from base layers to outer layers. Socks included. The only thing that I don't spray down is my pack and stuff. Maybe I should as it would keep down on hitchikers, but I store that gear separately.

I am working on my dogs and trying to find ways to keep them from bringing hitchikers home.

 

[BuckSmasher]

Yes. Pennsylvania is a bad state for ticks, but the last embedded tick I had was in 2006 from Elk County when I drew a cow tag.

I built and refined a routine and I spend a TON of time in heavily tick infested woods and I never get ticks. Just never. I spent a day in the Elk state forest last month and no ticks.

I mix 10% permethrin to 0.5% in a garden sprayer. I spray my stuff down 4 or 5 times a year, always before seasons of heavier use. I wet just to the point of dripping and allow to dry, from base layers to outer layers. Socks included. The only thing that I don't spray down is my pack and stuff. Maybe I should as it would keep down on hitchikers, but I store that gear separately.

I am working on my dogs and trying to find ways to keep them from bringing hitchikers home.

Glad you have a system. Beautiful country.