Where do we draw a line in the sand with prices?

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

This is generic and not directed at anyone specifically. But when folks rail against someone getting "rich" off the "working man", it gets old quickly and those same folks tend to be utterly clueless about how to actually run a business.

If you do not like it, then do it better yourself.

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If the item strokes a person's ego, they will spend whatever it is required. If the item does not stroke their ego, then they will bitch about the cost no matter what. Look at how many WKRs that spare no expense on their firearms and scopes yet bitch about the cost of a pair of quality boots.

End the of the day: folks will always find something to bitch about and never do anything about it.

 

[riversidejeep]

It's not only clothing, How about that Savage rifle for $500 that shoots the same/ better than the $2000 high end job. I look through the Bushnell/ Nikon/ whatever $250 bino's and can pick out the same bucks that my buddy with the $2000 Swavarsi. I run a Nikon $300 scope on my hunting rifle and whack what I shoot at. Marketing is what gets these guy's, Product may be a little better but not 2000% better. The COOL factor only goes so far.

 

[eltaco]

It’s somewhat easy to complain about until you have a look at the actual numbers. The cost of selling any product is significantly higher than the bill of materials. Once you add in employee wages and benefits, office and warehouse lease and utilities, packaging, tooling, shipping, marketing, taxes, etc that cost to market increases right along with it. There’s definitely a large markup to cover those operating expenses, and I can assure you the final operating margin is not as lavish as you’d think.

Not to mention there’s a large amount of financial risk involved. Some products cost a lot to bring to market and don’t gain the market attention they’d hope. There’s room for those to become losses, which all factor into the equation.

This is true for every product or service out there, and while it’s easy to be frustrated by rising costs or even comparable product A vs B cost deviations, know that all companies function at different efficiencies, costs, and business models.

As someone mentioned above, spend your money where you see companies aligning with your vision. If they’re priced too high and have no customers, the business model changes quickly to ensure sales revenue. If you consider the price too high and they’re selling more than they can produce, clearly you’re just not the intended customer.

 

[SummitsCalling]

Camo is for you to look good around the local diner, just like when your wives go to brunch

Direct to consumer was marketing in the outdoor industry, and if you bought it based on that the marketing worked. Companies are making money hands over fist from people thinking they need to look tacticool in the outdoors, I can't stop myself laughing every time I see it. There's is nothing these "outdoor" companies are doing that Patagonia or Arctyrex hasn't already done.

Another example is just like when it comes to Hornady's "new" cartridges, all have been made before, just new marketing behind it.

Scent and movement, been that way forever.

 

[Buckman]

I don't have a lot of money, never did. Buy on sale or clearance almost always. Am pretty easy on my gear, it HAS to last. Problem is it never seems to. Sitka, First lite , Kryptek doesn't seem to matter. Broken zippers, seams coming undone and they never seem to be as warm as stated . Maybe its just me, prolly is. But i think I'm done buying on line cloths .

 

[madtinker]

It’s somewhat easy to complain about until you have a look at the actual numbers. The cost of selling any product is significantly higher than the bill of materials. Once you add in employee wages and benefits, office and warehouse lease and utilities, packaging, tooling, shipping, marketing, taxes, etc that cost to market increases right along with it.

Not to mention the cost of scrapping product that does not meet spec. Design and material is only part of quality; it turns out that making stuff is hard and making mistakes is easy.

 

[madtinker]

Another metric is whether you could make the same thing for less cost. I guarantee I could not make a hunting pack for 300 dollars, even if just counting tools and materials, nevermind time.

 

[Pdzoller]

I always buy used or on sale and very rarely pay more than 50%. I may not have the newest products available but I do have some really good gear.

 

[TradArcher]

I veer towards alpine/mountaineering brands because better quality and they sell more so when last seasons gear goes on sale it goes on sale real cheap compared to new. I like some of the hunting boot brands but Scarpa fit my feet best and last for a long time plus sticky soles if you pick the right model. I actually wear Crispi for hunting that is less demanding (less climbing, sticking to rocks, etc). I like the Crispi boots but they don't beat Scarpa in the mountains for non-flat areas.

Plus, I live in the mountains anyway so mountaineering is a thing I do anyway...and I don't need doubles and triples of layering for sure. Then snowboarding, other sports, etc....I shop for the hardest wearing best gear I can find and stick with it.

Some hunting brands have stuff I need that is not supplied elsewhere...but for clothing unless they absolutely beat the already existing mountaineering brands its a hard no. I am not spending more for less quality regardless of the brand name tag on it. And the existing brands already had bright orange, green, brown, tan, etc and now seem to also make their clothing in camo to a certain extent.

 

[*zap*]

opulence has permeated society unless your below middle class and there are even areas where poor folks can just steal at will so they are not really poor...it is disconcerting to me because I do not believe it is sustainable.

 

[roosterdown]

OP said he didn't care if it's made overseas, but clearly many do care. I know someone who owns a sewn goods business who employs about 50 who do sewing full time in his small factory here in the US. He moved states as he grew because people who can sew well (commercial-grade) are very hard to find (he found a community that used to have a sewing-based industry that had closed, and moved his company there).

We had tons of them two and three generations ago, but that talent pool is now tiny.

 

[Hunt_Jefferson]

If you want to start your own brand, Gulch Gear lays it all out for you to see. For their Interceptor pants they make a 40% margin at full retail, $67 per pant. Looks like they aren’t including things like marketing, insurance, returns, warehousing, utilities, etc so cut that down even lower. Seems pretty tough to me, I’m glad there are good options out there if you are willing to look for them.

Gulch | Radical Transparency | Ultralight Hunting Pant

Copyright 2017, Gulch LLC Product: Men's Inceptor Pant Product Description: Ultralight Early-Mid Season Hunting Pant Pant Weight: Small: 13.7 oz.Medium: 14.1 oz.Large: 14.6 oz.XLarge: 15.4 oz.2XLarge: 16.1 oz. Total Cost for Gulch LLC: Manufacturing + Ingredients = Total Cost Small: $99.71...

gulchgear.com

 

[FLATHEAD]

I just bought a 100$ shell/rain jacket.
I'll use it catfish fishing, surf fishing,
checking on my chickens in the rain
and.......hunting.
Guess how I feel about a 500$ shell?

 

[Mule3006Elk]

If the gear does it's job I don't mind paying the price. I never regret it when I'm in the backcountry. I hunt/sleep on the mountain not from a truck/trailer or comfortable basecamp. My gear last years. Keeps me warm, dries out quickly when needed, breathes fairly well. Checks all the boxes I need. If someone can find inexpensive gear that checks all the boxes, for them, hats off.

Getting a good price is easy. Just watch RS, daily, there are always deals to be had on 'expensive clothing.'

 

[elkhunter505]

I am the typical gear snob so I definitely have paid the full prices for some of this. However, due to my career choice and knowing a few people I do get consistent discounts on both outdoor and hunting companies clothing. Having used many brands, OR, Prana, Rab, Kuiu, First Lite, I would say that the gear I actually wear the most and gets the most abuse are my prana zions. Great pants love them.

That being said, even with the considerable discount I am able to get sometimes, I am certain these companies are still making some money on that or they would not offer that discount. I would say they do have a good margin.

However, I also know people at my personal archery and hunting shop. I am able to see their margins whenever they show me new products in their system. I would say a lot of the retailed items are making much less of a margin than the direct to consumer companies. I’ve seen anywhere from 9-33% margin for the business. Just some food for thought.

Also, someone up here mentioned bushnell vs Swarovski and personally I will damn sure pony up that money for Swaros when I am in a better position in life

 

[hunting1]

I am still using some of my Core4 from Camofire and wish it was still available. It was better or equal IMHO than my new gear. I cringe at prices but buy when there are sales and applaud anyone who can buy nice things. The industry is good at marketing what we need when in reality look at all the people selling used clothes to buy the newest pattern, trend, etc.

Let's admit it, it is fun to buy and try new gear, need is something else. Many hunt from the truck but dress like they are on an Alaska sheep hunt.

Happy hunting!

 

[Ark6]

My line in the sand? I’m a cheapskate. I got back into hunting in just the last year, and saved a lot of money on clothes by buying wool sweaters, wool pants, and a down jacket from thrift stores. I had to learn how to hem and let out the waist of the pants - they are old army uniform pants that were fitted for a stork. Now they fit like a glove. The jacket makes me look like a crazy homeless person, it’s so dated. Elk don’t care what I look like.

One item of gear I really need to upgrade is my pack. On my hunt last fall it tore up the skin on my back due to poor design and bad fit when heavily loaded. Am I going to spend $700 for a new pack system? Absolutely not. I’m going to wait til something comes up on the classifieds for what I feel is a fair price.

Anyway, my point is if you don’t feel a price is fair, don’t pay it. Our granddaddies (figuratively; as far as I can tell mine never hunted) got by with their regular work clothes, and with a bit of creativity there’s no need to spend big $$ to wander around the woods with a boom stick.

I bought a SG Xcurve and put my old large ALICE pack bag on it. Not perfect but works.


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[Maverick1]

There are two main parties in this symbiotic situation: the seller and the buyer.

 

[Ark6]

It's not only clothing, How about that Savage rifle for $500 that shoots the same/ better than the $2000 high end job. I look through the Bushnell/ Nikon/ whatever $250 bino's and can pick out the same bucks that my buddy with the $2000 Swavarsi. I run a Nikon $300 scope on my hunting rifle and whack what I shoot at. Marketing is what gets these guy's, Product may be a little better but not 2000% better. The COOL factor only goes so far.

lol yup. I shoot a savage ‘06 I got at the pawnshop for $275, put a “last season’s” vortex scope which was 50% off and have less in a better rifle/glass combo than anyone I know. It is also a pretty weight efficient compared to what I’d have gotten otherwise and as accurate as 30’06 can get, it is also ugly and that doesn’t bother me. That said I do have some FL clothes, but it was all on a discount of some kind. I use vortex glass but that’s because I have kids and want to be able to hand them binos etc without worrying about them breaking them (yes, I know there’s a wait to get stuff repaired, this was for my sanity and so I wouldn’t have any excuse not to let the kids use binos/rangefinder etc). I also use a lot of old military gear/clothes I got used to when I was in (just got some arctic mittens to use when riding a quad in winter, $30 bucks).

In the end, OP, don’t try to change the world, you can only change yourself.


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[jtivat]

I was a scuba instructor years ago and worked for a good size shop. Everything they sold was marked up 50%. The owner made about 50k a year and the shop never made a profit.