Where do we draw a line in the sand with prices?

[gearjunkie]

I want to discuss this because these companies are literally printing money on our dollar. The products are all made in foreign countries. The direct to consumer model that "saves" the end buyer money is a crock. These companies are buying 500 dollar jackets for 20-40 dollars a piece. Don't tell me R&D ect... is the reason for this. At this point it's pure greed. I own thousands of dollars of the big three's apparel so I am guilty as well. Now it isn't only hunting companies the entire textile industry has pulled the wool over the consumers eyes.

There are a few American made companies out there but instead of offering a quality made American garment for a slight premium over import they massively jack up the price. We have become so dependent on other countries skill with textiles most of our American made items are inferior to imported anyway.

It's time that a company entered the space who's first priority wasn't to make the the CEO rich. As your company scales the money grows. If you succeed in pulling market share from other companies because your product is the best and fairly priced you are awarded. We need someone to disrupt this market and force the prices down.

I don't care if it's made here or overseas just stop being so damn greedy.

END RANT

 

[ILIKEGEAR]

We raffle off the "big 3s" products every day in ILIKEGEAR for pretty cheap if you're a betting man

Only 20 total tickets sold on each.

Win a KUIU Axis Jacket for $18 a ticket
Win a Sitka Fanatic Jacket for $20 a ticket
Win a First Lite Catalyst Jacket for $17 a ticket

We also do Kifaru, Stone Glacier, Kennetrek, Crispi and all of the other backcountry brands.

Other than that, keep an eye on their outlet items as they often go on sale. There is also the Hunting Gear Deals website that often has good prices. Unfortunately I don't think prices are going down anytime soon, regardless if you come up with the next "big fourth" or not.

 

[AlpineBeard]

That’s the free market… it’s a good thing. You have seen their prices get out of control leaving the door open for you (or someone like you) to do exactly as you said and steal the market share.

Years ago it was a MUCH worse situation because there has been top notch gear on the market for a long time, it’s just not camo or market to hunters. The “hunting” gear cost as much or more than the tier one products but they were generally speaking-garbage. The companies you’re talking about saw this “hole in the market” and filled it with higher quality products made for hunters. I hope they are getting rich… sounds like they filled one hole and created another. Your turn, and I sincerely hope you do get rich for your efforts!

Unfortunately is harder than you’d think unless you specialize in marketing. Marketing beats quality in our market. Most people can’t actually tell the difference.

 

[zrodwyo]

I doubt the the executive team from any of the hunting clothing companies are getting rich off them. I really can’t see any of the boutique hunting clothes companies generating any serious profit.

Maybe Kuiu since they have become a trend outside of the hunting community.

 

[gearjunkie]

We raffle off the "big 3s" products every day in ILIKEGEAR for pretty cheap if you're a betting man

Only 20 total tickets sold on each.

Win a KUIU Axis Jacket for $18 a ticket
Win a Sitka Fanatic Jacket for $20 a ticket
Win a First Lite Catalyst Jacket for $17 a ticket

We also do Kifaru, Stone Glacier, Kennetrek, Crispi and all of the other backcountry brands.

Other than that, keep an eye on their outlet items as they often go on sale. There is also the Hunting Gear Deals website that often has good prices. Unfortunately I don't think prices are going down anytime soon, regardless if you come up with the next "big fourth" or not.

You responded to my thread about money grabs with a money grab?

I doubt the the executive team from any of the hunting clothing companies are getting rich off them. I really can’t see any of the boutique hunting clothes companies generating any serious profit.

Maybe Kuiu since they have become a trend outside of the hunting community.

I don't know this for a fact nor do I have anything to back this up, but I believe this is wrong. The higher ups or the top dog in the big three are rolling in it.

 

[gearjunkie]

That’s the free market… it’s a good thing. You have seen their prices get out of control leaving the door open for you (or someone like you) to do exactly as you said and steal the market share.

Years ago it was a MUCH worse situation because there has been top notch gear on the market for a long time, it’s just not camo or market to hunters. The “hunting” gear cost as much or more than the tier one products but they were generally speaking-garbage. The companies you’re talking about saw this “hole in the market” and filled it with higher quality products made for hunters. I hope they are getting rich… sounds like they filled one hole and created another. Your turn, and I sincerely hope you do get rich for your efforts!

Unfortunately is harder than you’d think unless you specialize in marketing. Marketing beats quality in our market. Most people can’t actually tell the difference.

That's why I simply said where do we draw the line as a market? Not that it will ever happen. There are American companies as well that seem to be decent but they miss the mark in a lot of areas. I know my handle is gear junkie, but for example, not one article of clothing from most of these brands has below 800 fill down in it and you are running 650 you are losing me right there.

 

[P Carter]

Go for it! Start that company, and if there’s a niche for it it’ll work. If not, it’ll fail. I’d buy an equivalent product for a lower price, for sure!

 

[Jon Boy]

I doubt the the executive team from any of the hunting clothing companies are getting rich off them. I really can’t see any of the boutique hunting clothes companies generating any serious profit.

Maybe Kuiu since they have become a trend outside of the hunting community.

You haven't been to bozeman

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[MallardSX2]

OP, I understand your complaint for sure and I am glad I pretty much own everything I want to own in life as far as shooting/reloading/archery/fishing/hunting gear goes. It would cost me a half a million in today's money to buy everything I own again.

I am to the point that, if I can't build it myself, I don't need it.

 

[gearjunkie]

This was my design for my own brand. I was discouraged from starting because of the massive influx of smaller brands saturating the market recently. It seems every day I see another facebook ad for a different hunting brand. Possibly an impeding crash of the market as well is a bit scary.

 

[Szwampdonkey]

Well, that’s capitalism and it’s been proven again and again that it works. The market will bear what it will bear so if flat brim hat kids want to put a $600 Sitka jacket on their credit card because they can’t actually afford a $600 jacket then Sitka, and those like them, will continue to make $600 jackets.

The problem more likely lies with banks loaning money to people who can’t actually afford the stuff they buy. Just like the mortgage market so blame banks looking to make interest off those $600 Sitka jackets.

This market would slow down if people who shouldn’t have $20,000 limits on a credit card didn’t have them i guarantee you.

That being said, a person who had great business sense could certainly exploit the void you’re talking about by making a line of hunting clothes with the same quality as Sitka but selling it for what it’s actually worth, like $100. They would definitely grab market share and surpass the big companies on sales alone but with smaller profit margins which mean you’ll get rich slower. That is where human greed plays into it and why no one has done it. Why make $50 profit per jacket when Sitka is making $550 profit per jacket so everyone thinks it MUST be better quality when it really isn’t.

 

[svivian]

Average top tier camo manufacturer is making about a 80% margin selling themselves. Thats why First Lite and Kuiu were originally selling that way to "save the consumer money" Once they realized they could price as much as sitka they ran with it.

Also if you are paying full price for any camo manufacturer you are doing something wrong....

 

[rclouse79]

The line will be drawn at different places for different folks. I already drew my line in the sand. The premium clothing, in most cases, is better designed with better materials. I dipped my toe into the premium clothing market and although I like the design I was not impressed with durability. If I had more money than I knew what to do with, I would probably go into the woods looking like a Sitka or First Light advertisement. Since I am not in that boat, I came to the conclusion that the added benefit was not worth the added cost for most items.
I think I saw this quote on this site: "Pick two: cheap, light, durable". I assumed premium companies would check the last two boxes. I became turned off when, after wearing the gear, it appeared that only the light box was checked. I am not going to replace things every year at exorbitant prices.

 

[Team4LongGun]

You responded to my thread about money grabs with a money grab?

I don't know this for a fact nor do I have anything to back this up, but I believe this is wrong. The higher ups or the top dog in the big three are rolling in it.

OP-you started a thread, and immediately are having an issue with others responses?? This is what a conversation is.

If you wanted to rant only, and not hear what others have to say on the topic, you could have done that from your basement, back yard etc.

Literally, in your own words,

"I don't know this for a fact nor do I have anything to back this up, but I believe this is wrong. The higher ups or the top dog in the big three are rolling in it."

Your lack of knowledge, proof and assumptions aren't going to likely sway many opinions to your viewpoint.

 

[Pro953]

Where is this magical 40.00 price point coming from? Yes, “premium”brands do charge a premium.

I would look at the SWFA Low will do it thread for some feedback about why it’s not as easy as
Just ordering 10,000 40.00 jackets and selling them.

US labor, logistics cost, license costs for fabrics like Gore or camo patterns all add up very quick. As noted above add marketing costs for sales reps, trade shows, catalogs. Also as noted in the defiance thread, not everyone is paying full boat retail, wholesale FOB is much lower than the retail price you see. Also very few clients actually pay retail so knock off 10-20 percent for every purchase.

Suddenly that 100-200% markup shrinks down to the low double high single digits really quick.


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[strattonje2020]

supply and demand.

I noticed the first year of covid hunting number shot up and alot of gear items sold out before hunting season and ran very few sales. They raised prices because their inventory evaporated overnight and they brought in more for 2022.

This year I noticed alot of the big 3 have steep discounts in October and Nov because they didn't sell all their inventory.

If we buy it faster than they can stock it you would have to be dumb to lower prices.

 

[gearjunkie]

OP-you started a thread, and immediately are having an issue with others responses?? This is what a conversation is.

If you wanted to rant only, and not hear what others have to say on the topic, you could have done that from your basement, back yard etc.

Literally, in your own words,

"I don't know this for a fact nor do I have anything to back this up, but I believe this is wrong. The higher ups or the top dog in the big three are rolling in it."

Your lack of knowledge, proof and assumptions aren't going to likely sway many opinions to your viewpoint.

I wanted to be clear that I do not know this for fact I wasn't attempting to dispute it due to direct lack of knowledge. Sorry if it came off different.

I had no problem with the other response besides them immediately opening with a lottery to win articles of clothing where they get slightly more than the website price for the item once the amount of entries are added up.

 

[Team4LongGun]

I wanted to be clear that I do not know this for fact I wasn't attempting to dispute it due to direct lack of knowledge. Sorry if it came off different.

I had no problem with the other response besides them immediately opening with a lottery to win articles of clothing where they get slightly more than the website price for the item once the amount of entries are added up.

I gotcha-no prob.

I agree with you that there is a niche to fill, and as another member mentioned, I think one could grab a decent chunk of market share on apparel if it fit the bill of performance and durability and cost.

Nobody WANTS to pay more, me included, but the how and why is way past my comprehension.

 

[gearjunkie]

supply and demand.

I noticed the first year of covid hunting number shot up and alot of gear items sold out before hunting season and ran very few sales. They raised prices because their inventory evaporated overnight and they brought in more for 2022.

This year I noticed alot of the big 3 have steep discounts in October and Nov because they didn't sell all their inventory.

If we buy it faster than they can stock it you would have to be dumb to lower prices.

I agree they do often have steep discounts, like you said it's mostly on undesired items which makes sense to get rid of stock. They also always have steep discounts on logo wear which I personally have no interest in, each to his or her own. These "steep" discounts still have plenty of room for a lot of profit.

This is also often in prep for new updated items to hit the market.

 

[S.Clancy]

I've been using Black Diamond, Rab, Mammut, etc for years. From what I can tell, the quality is equal or surpasses "hunting" companies gear. I can get it at a fraction of the cost also.