When to hold vs when to dial?

[ltfreeman11]

I’m getting in to western hunting and I come from East Texas where max range is about 200 yards. I’ve been practicing longer ranges but I want to know yalls opinions on when is best to hold and when to dial. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[greyghostnw]

Learn both. Develop a routine that’s second nature.

 

[ltfreeman11]

Learn both. Develop a routine that’s second nature.

Just wanna know where to start with holding.. there’s a lot of resources for learning how to dial. Not as much for holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[huntnful]

If the animal is close, just shoot it. If it’s far enough you’re unsure of range, range it and dial. Don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be is all

 

[hereinaz]

Dial on your maximum point blank zero. If it is further, dial.

While you can hold, it’s not as precise. If you are engaging one target, just dial.

If you are engaging multiple targets with limited time to dial, and someone is feeding you the dope, then maybe hold.

Otherwise, dial. That is why there isn’t as much about holding.

Long range shooting is managing multiple tasks simultaneously. Holding for elevation adds an unnecessary mental task on limited mental processing power.

Your error rate will increase significantly if you start trying to hold elevation and wind. When match directors want to add complexity and decrease hit rates, forcing holdovers is an easy way to do that.

I play with it, but will never rely on it hunting.

It’s also why I use MIL because it is easier to count and dial faster— reduced mental strain. I count by one and tens, never with quarters.

 

[nm.otter]

Read up on quick drop and then buy something with an MRAD reticle.

 

[wapitibob]

If the animal is close, just shoot it. If it’s far enough you’re unsure of range, range it and dial. Don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be is all

^^ This is the answer for most. If you have time to range it, you have time to dial it. Make a yardage tape with an avery label and a sharpie, and range/dial/shoot is a simple process.

 

[taskswap]

I hold <400yds and dial everything else but I'm no sniper so I wouldn't exactly call this "advice." Practice matters more than method.

 

[nm.otter]

At 6,000 ft, quick drop will take a 143 ELD-X out of a 6.5 Creedmoor to 900 yards.

Not hunting anywhere near that far, but will begin practicing at those ranges (likely dialing) soon.

 

[wind gypsy]

If the animal is close, just shoot it. If it’s far enough you’re unsure of range, range it and dial. Don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be is all

This.

But also for the OP, dialing elevation and holding wind is common practice.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

At 6,000 ft, quick drop will take a 143 ELD-X out of a 6.5 Creedmoor to 900 yards.
Not hunting anywhere near that far, but will begin practicing at those ranges (likely dialing) soon.

That bullet at that range will need to be trued for hits in nearly all cases that I’ve seen.

I would 100% advise against holding for elevation, especially at that distance, even with the best MIL reticle on the planet.

Dial for trued up elevation with your current ammo lot at your current DA. Learn to call and hold wind using a proper reticle (also learn to make accurate real time wind corrections because you WILL miss a lot).

At 900 yards you want to take ALL elevation corrections out of the equation by dialing with good/known hit data, and focus on your wind calls/holds. Practice and have fun!

 

[Jordan Smith]

This.

But also for the OP, dialing elevation and holding wind is common practice.

Yup. When it comes to elevation compensation, assuming a well-trained individual with both methods, holding is generally a bit faster for multiple target/distance engagements, but less precise, while dialing is more precise but not quite as quick is dealing with multiple targets/distances. For a single target, they are pretty similar in speed, with holding maybe having a slight advantage. Again, assuming the individual is well-versed in both methods.

As mentioned, an advantage of dialing elevation and holding wind is that you generally get more precision in your wind hold options along the main horizontal stadia, versus in the lower stadia found in Christmas tree reticles.

I subscribe to the method of dialing for a decent PBR while hunting, and then dialing additional elevation for anything further. I always hold wind.

 

[roadrunner]

I’m getting in to western hunting and I come from East Texas where max range is about 200 yards. I’ve been practicing longer ranges but I want to know yalls opinions on when is best to hold and when to dial. Thanks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Me: holdover as needed with a BDC.

 

[nm.otter]

I would 100% advise against holding for elevation, especially at that distance, even with the best MIL reticle on the planet.

Of course.

Once I have a broken-in barrel and 35+ shots at 200 yards for a rock solid zero, I'll update 4DOF with verified velocity figures and start truing.

6x scope (for now) will set limits on holdover regardless.

 

[HuntHarder]

I dial for anything over 250ish yards for elevation. I hold wind every time, no matter the distance. If the animal moves 50-100 yards, I will either re-dial ( if I have time) or hold the difference.

I can remember starting out with burris and Nikon bdc reticle which had holdovers on the reticle. It was a game changer. Then dialing became popular, and then again, a game changer. For me, I am much more confident dialing and holding center reticle.

 

[TaperPin]

For over 40 years I’ve zeroed at 300. For everything from 243 to 270, 7 mag, creedmoor, ‘06, 300 mag, etc., it gets your point of impact dead center when holding a hand width low for 100 & 200 yards, a hand width high for 350 yards and on the back at 400 for mule deer, and past that gets dialed. Check out how well the 7 mag 300 yard zero matches this system.

For years folks acted like this was crazy talk when all everyone could think of was dialing, but now even the Hornady podcast boys let it slip they do something very similar at moderate range and dial after that. Millions of animals have been taken with holdovers (and unders), at the very least folks should understand how to do it well. Grab 4 cardboard boxes about 20” tall (mule deer chest depth) and spread them out every hundred yards and many hunters are surprised how easy it is to hit every one well.

Those that haven’t lost an animal to time wasting dialing short distance as it slowly walks over the ridge or behind a tree, eventually will.

I never liked maximum point blank range where the bullet impact is much further off above and below. Don’t confuse good holdovers with max point blank.

In the end whatever rules of thumb work well for you should be practiced enough to be second nature.

 

[199p]

If the animal is close, just shoot it. If it’s far enough you’re unsure of range, range it and dial. Don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be is all

the other flip side is when you have distance, you generally haven't spooked them and no need for a rushed shot. If you have time its always nice to get a good set up and dryfire, then make your shot, get some practice in at getting down into position and getting the natural point of aim on the animal.

easy to access jacket or hoodie is my go to rear rest, can also use bino harness, a backpack or a bag etc etc

 

[greyghostnw]

In the end your style of hunting and system you use would influence your decision on either.

 

[Macintosh]

For over 40 years I’ve zeroed at 300. For everything from 243 to 270, 7 mag, creedmoor, ‘06, 300 mag, etc., it gets your point of impact dead center when holding a hand width low for 100 & 200 yards, a hand width high for 350 yards and on the back at 400 for mule deer, and past that gets dialed. Check out how well the 7 mag 300 yard zero matches this system.

For years folks acted like this was crazy talk when all everyone could think of was dialing, but now even the Hornady podcast boys let it slip they do something very similar. Millions of animals have been taken with holdovers (and unders), at the very least folks should understand how to do it well. Grab 4 cardboard boxes about 20” tall (mule deer chest depth) and spread them out every hundred yards and many hunters are surprised how easy it is to hit every one well.

Those that haven’t lost an animal to time wasting dialing short distance as it slowly walks over the ridge or behind a tree, eventually will.

I never liked maximum point blank range where the bullet impact is much further off above and below. Don’t confuse good holdovers with max point blank.

In the end whatever rules of thumb work well for you should be practiced enough to be second nature.

View attachment 901741

Im not sure this is what most people mean by “holdovers”. I would describe this as a “very large MPBR-type zero combined with kentucky windage”. As I understand “holdovers” as used by most folks, that is using a non-center reticle-mark as the aiming point for any distance past your zero, ie if you zero at 100, then in a mil-dot reticle first mark is 300, 200 is halfway in between, second mark is 400, etc.

For me, I zero at 100 and plan to dial for any shots past about 200 yards. I have never had a shot opportunity past 200 yards where I didnt have time to dial, with the caveat that while Ive been hunting for almost 40 years most of that has been in the east where 200 yards is an unheard-of long shot. I do practice reticle holds and have found them helpful on some match stages with a lot of moving back and forth between targets. I also bought a mil-dot scope to hunt with and practiced using that for a while. I found that I could be reasonably precise using reticle holds with a PRS-type reticle, but I found those reticles un-usable for most of my hunting (too fine at low magnification). The mil dot reticle is much better at low magnification, but I could not be precise enough on deer-sized targets past 350 yards or so. So my plan is always to 1) get close enough to where I can just use my 100 yard zero; 2) Failing that I dial elevation and hold wind, and 3) if a mid-range shot (200-350 yards) presents itself those are very easy reticle holds with my mil dot reticle can certainly do that in a pinch if needed. I wont use this past 350 or so with my equipment. Maybe on a huge target like an elk, but not on deer.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

How much time do you have to get a shot off? Little to no time -> hold; otherwise dial.