When to hold vs when to dial?

[NorthIdahoDude]

I am not as long range as some of you (550 or so is my hypothetical limit, 300 is as far as I've ever had a shot opportunity I took), but I'd take a reticle with hold-over hashes any day vs either a) an exposed scope turret in the field, or b) having to remove a cap to get to the dial and not screw it up under pressure.

To be clear, I don't mean blindly assume scope manual is right - get a copy of Strelok or Chairgunner on your phone, set it up with your scope/reticle, dial it in for your load, and then take notes the exact yardages the holdover points are at. Test it at the range to confirm accuracy, and good to go.

Heres mine for 175 ELD-X at 2515 out of my 7x57 (with a hypothetical elk at 480, and a light breeze).

 

[need4sneed]

I personally think shooting holdover elevations is less accurate compared to dial.

However - having a 250 zero (especially for flat 3000fps guns) can be 2” high at 100, 3” low at 300. This gives you a …”pretty decent”.. point of aim crosshair for quick shooting 0-300 for still hunting/tracking in open country.

Having a 100 yard zero on a dial scope allows me all of the conveniences and training of a dial. And you if I really need that 250 zero for a specific use case - I can conveniently dial
my zero to 250 immediately and walk around like that. Back to true 100 zero when I’m done.

***I now practice/perform dialing quick drop. I do a 2600fps 140gr with a MRAD dial scope. It is very easy memorized drops that are pinpoint 0-600. It is stupid fast and in my opinion: as fast, accurately, as anything you could possibly do - when routinely practiced.
And Rokslide/S2H have been the resources I used to learn this system. Thanks!

 

[Castle Rock]

Just because you are zeroed at 100 doesn’t mean you have carry it set for 100.
I generally carry it clicked to 200m and quick drop works well for my 243

 

[MT-nuffgun]

My Swfa mil scope has half mill hash marks. Zero at 100 yards, hold .5 mil at 200 yards, hold 1 mil at 300 with my 243 108 eldm load. Pretty much anything over 300 yards I usually have enough time to dial. I am a western spot and stalk hunter. Most of the critters I kill are under 300 yards. Don’t overthink it.

 

[Pilsner]

Just wanna know where to start with holding.. there’s a lot of resources for learning how to dial. Not as much for holding


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Dial for elevation
hold for wind
Never bother to dial for anything inside your MPBR.

 

[Ramem7mm]

If the animal is close, just shoot it. If it’s far enough you’re unsure of range, range it and dial. Don’t make it more complicated than it needs to be is all

This. Practice is key though. Become familiar with your rifle setup. Also if you do dial, remember to go back to zero before you move or failed attempt etc.

 

[robby denning]

No expert here.

But one of the best hold-over guys in the industry--Scott Thompson of Thompson LR-- says hold to 700, dial after.

I've had good luck with holdover to about 500. But I've not learned to dial so I can't say it's better. But holdover is simple and I'm a simple man.

 

[Jordan Smith]

No expert here.

But one of the best hold-over guys in the industry--Scott Thompson of Thompson LR-- says hold to 700, dial after.

I've had good luck with holdover to about 500. But I've not learned to dial so I can't say it's better. But holdover is simple and I'm a simple man.

It all depends on the precision of the reticle. If the reticle has lots of hashmarks with fine subtensions, sure. But for most reticles, holding for anything over about 400-500 is less precise than dialing (assuming the scope works correctly).

 

[Macintosh]

It all depends on the precision of the reticle. If the reticle has lots of hashmarks with fine subtensions, sure. But for most reticles, holding for anything over about 400-500 is less precise than dialing (assuming the scope works correctly).

agree 100%. Also no expert, but having tried and worked on this for myself, in general what I've found is that reticles that work well for me for the majority of shots (ie inside 300 yards I want/need a fairly bold reticle compared to some folks) are the worst reticles for reticle-holds at extended range. I would much rather have a reticle I like for the majority of my shots and need to dial a little closer, than have a reticle optimised for long-range holds.

 

[Jordan Smith]

agree 100%. Also no expert, but having tried and worked on this for myself, in general what I've found is that reticles that work well for me for the majority of shots (ie inside 300 yards I want/need a fairly bold reticle compared to some folks) are the worst reticles for reticle-holds at extended range. I would much rather have a reticle I like for the majority of my shots and need to dial a little closer, than have a reticle optimised for long-range holds.

Agreed. I'm not into Horus reticles for hunting (or really anything else I use a rifle for).

 

[wind gypsy]

It all depends on the precision of the reticle. If the reticle has lots of hashmarks with fine subtensions, sure. But for most reticles, holding for anything over about 400-500 is less precise than dialing (assuming the scope works correctly).

Those guys push custom reticle Leupold Vx3s and 30-378 weatherbys as the solution.

 

[rkcdvm]

At 200 I would personally just holdover. My holdovers get iffy around the 350 to 400 range and I start to dial . That is with a 200 yard zero. Caliber choice also matters. My 7 comes screaming out of the barrel but my 35 remington is heavy slow.... like me...

 

[Lawnboi]

The issue using mpbr or a 200-250 yard zero for most is they assume their rifle is a laser beam and shoots the same hole.

Take that shot that’s 3” low because you just have to hold fur with your 1.5moa cone of fire rifle and your shot lands at the bottom of the cone, you better hope what your shooting at is bigger than a deer.

Or you could just dial or hold 1 mil and give yourself a lot more margin for error.

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

The issue using mpbr or a 200-250 yard zero for most is they assume their rifle is a laser beam and shoots the same hole.

Take that shot that’s 3” low because you just have to hold fur with your 1.5moa cone of fire rifle and your shot lands at the bottom of the cone, you better hope what your shooting at is bigger than a deer.

Or you could just dial or hold 1 mil and give yourself a lot more margin for error.

Does the perceived laser effect only apply to MOA scopes? Are MIL scopes immune from any ill effects of MPBR?

 

[Lawnboi]

Does the perceived laser effect only apply to MOA scopes? Are MIL scopes immune from any ill effects of MPBR?

Only ffp and it’s got to have a huge sunshade on it

 

[AZ_Hunter_2000]

Only ffp and it’s got to have a huge sunshade on it

I wasn't asking about what your SO uses on you in the privacy of your home.

Your previous post could be interpreted that only rifles MOA scopes have a cone while rifles with MIL scopes do not.

Your previous post could be interpreted that only MIL scopes could be dialed and not MOA scopes.

Your previous post could be interpreted that if you hold on fur with a MOA scope you are likely to miss but that would be a non-issue doing the same with a MIL scope.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I wasn't asking about what your SO uses on you in the privacy of your home.

Your previous post could be interpreted that only rifles MOA scopes have a cone while rifles with MIL scopes do not.

Your previous post could be interpreted that only MIL scopes could be dialed and not MOA scopes.

Your previous post could be interpreted that if you hold on fur with a MOA scope you are likely to miss but that would be a non-issue doing the same with a MIL scope.

His comment about “1.5 MOA” has to do with the accuracy of the gun and scope, nothing about “moa” being used in a scope or hold over.

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Does the perceived laser effect only apply to MOA scopes? Are MIL scopes immune from any ill effects of MPBR?

MPBR sucks no matter what scope you use. I used that method for years and killed with it. Since moving to alternate methods I’ve become more effective personally.

 

[Oakman]

Valuable info guys , Thanks

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

I debated @Formidilosus for quite a while on 100 versus 200 yard zeros… Guess what all my guns zeros are at now? 100 yard zeroes are the way. MBPR is horribly inaccurate when actually measured on targets at range.