When is enough, enough? (strength related)

[5MilesBack]

You don't have to be superman, but it would be nice if we could fly.

I've been looking for an economical silent jet pack, but haven't found anything yet.

 

[MTguy0341]

I'd work on smaller goals than that for now. With Goals that high, two months from now you might lose the motivation to attain those goals. I'm also with alot of other guys that posted before me, I hate 1 rep maxes. Putting up 285 on bench a couple years and tore my pec. Thank god it happened in the winter otherwise would've been screwed if it was during archery. Couldn't do a pushup for over a month afterwards.

 

[elkyinzer]

I know this goes against the whole social media driven hunting fitness fad...but let me know how a max rep bench press directly relates to mountain hunting, I must be missing something?

I strength train because I want to look and feel good but mountain hunting is all about the legs. Sure some basic core and upper body work helps, but it is all about the legs.

Here is my benchmarking, and this is really all the complexity that is required. I have a trail on one of the local ridges that I call the test trail. 900 feet at about 27% grade. Best I can do around me. When I can hoof it up there with a 40 pound sandbag without stopping and not feel like death at the top I know I am ready to rock and roll. Last year I was recovering from a torn MCL and never completely reached that point, and I still got around fine elk hunting some brutally steep canyons. It's just not as hard as some make it out to be.

 

[LongWayAround]

Average guy...OK.

200 lb man...

500 lb deadlift
400 lb squat
300 lb bench.

I don't know who you hang out with...

I don't follow your comment?

I've only hit 200lb once in my life and prefer to stay around 180, maybe a little more in the winter.

As some others stated, I dont think being stronger can be a hindrance whether it's necessary or not. Besides, you don't have to be swollen with extra mass to be strong.

Just my thoughts on the strength benchmarks the OP mentioned...

I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I'm just a meathead that prefers to be in the woods.

 

[prconnection]

Just my opinion

For back country hiking and hunting I don't think becuase you can bench a certain amount or squat a certain amount makes you better. Does it hinder you no. Can it help you yes..........but I personally think cardio training is so much more important! A big strong man who can lift all sorts of weight and any direction with any of his body parts but has bad cardio is useless hiking up 3000 ft into the back country. I personally think an combination of both with more attention or your cardio will benefit a person most and what weight he can bench press is really irrelevant

Dan

 

[Poser]

My thoughts on upper body strength & mtn hunting are that a solid strength foundation with a good balance between push and pull muscles will help you avoid injury either shouldering a super heavy backpack load or while under weight of an excessively heavy pack for an extended period of time. It is pretty easy to tweak or totally wreck something while getting into a 115# pack on unstable terrain. When I used to rock climb, I had almost constant injuries, tweaks, aches & pains etc because of the severe imbalance between pulling and pushing muscles.

I will agree that what we do is rather straightforward and does not require complex training or even a barbell in order to do it well. For me personally, at this point, I just want all around solid strength and conditioning so that when it is time for hunting season, I don't have to do much specific preparation. Basically, being in shape for hunting just becomes a default extension of a lifestyle that is already in place. Another component might be the physiological aspect of what you consider to be relatively "heavy." For example, if you are used to picking up and moving around 150 lbs in various ways, a 100 pound pack does seem like a reasonable amount of weight to be carrying around once it comes time to do so. Its kind of nice to approach it as "oh, its hunting season, let me wear a pack a few times and I'm good to go."

A good example of imbalance might be hardcore cyclists. I've known some guys who fit this description and they are literally a stick on a set of legs. One of them in particular cannot do 1 single strict push up. Sure, these guys have great Vo2 maxes and their legs potentially hold as much endurance as a set of legs can, BUT, I am almost certain they would crumble under the weight of half an elk on their back.

 

[Travis1984]

I don't follow your comment?

I've only hit 200lb once in my life and prefer to stay around 180, maybe a little more in the winter.

As some others stated, I dont think being stronger can be a hindrance whether it's necessary or not. Besides, you don't have to be swollen with extra mass to be strong.

Just my thoughts on the strength benchmarks the OP mentioned...

I don't claim to be an expert on anything. I'm just a meathead that prefers to be in the woods.

I'm saying that your numbers are insanely high, unrealistic, and completely unnecessary for successful backcountry hunting.

I think a better check for backcountry readiness is a 4-5 mile run at an 8 min pace.

 

[307]

I don't think the 2.5x dl, 2x bq, 1.5x bench numbers are insane at all.

How about 250#squat, 300# dl, 200 bench, and 5 strict full ROM pull ups as milestones? The animals don't get lighter for the smaller guys... After that, just maintain strength and work on aerobic performance...

 

[Travis1984]

I don't think the 2.5x dl, 2x bq, 1.5x bench numbers are insane at all.

How about 250#squat, 300# dl, 200 bench, and 5 strict full ROM pull ups as milestones? The animals don't get lighter for the smaller guys... After that, just maintain strength and work on aerobic performance...

I think these numbers are more realistic, but I think aerobic ability and mental toughness is more important then lifting big weights.

That being said, I have made an effort to balance more weight lifting into my training.

But as a guy who's max squat is probably 210, I was able to pack a bull out with my partner 8 miles with a lot of gain, off trail.

Being able to run a sub 8 min pace for 5 miles is probably more indicative of backcountry ability then lifting big weights.

And the most important piece rests between your ears.

 

[LongWayAround]

I'm saying that your numbers are insanely high, unrealistic, and completely unnecessary for successful backcountry hunting.

I think a better check for backcountry readiness is a 4-5 mile run at an 8 min pace.

I specified that I was just referring to a general benchmark, not just in a hunting scenario. I think you may have misunderstood me? I didnt mean to say that it's necessary to do those things but I do believe pushing yourself is always good.

I also agree that big gym numbers don't equate to being fit for the mountains and aerobic fitness is critical.

I've only packed out three elk and never as far in as your 8 mile bull. I can say though, that the mental toughness required to pack a heavy load for a long distance over rough terrain is very similar to to grinding out heavy sets.

I do almost no cardio in the gym but I run trails and do heavy pack hikes regularly, both of which are obviously directly applicable to hunting.

 

[jmez]

I think these numbers are more realistic, but I think aerobic ability and mental toughness is more important then lifting big weights.

That being said, I have made an effort to balance more weight lifting into my training.

But as a guy who's max squat is probably 210, I was able to pack a bull out with my partner 8 miles with a lot of gain, off trail.

Being able to run a sub 8 min pace for 5 miles is probably more indicative of backcountry ability then lifting big weights.

And the most important piece rests between your ears.

Don't agree with your cadio benchmark either. I can barely run a sub 8 minute mile for 1 mile. If I do that my second mile would be about 11 minutes. I've never had an issue with the cardio or conditioning aspect of hunting in the mountains.

 

[Jon Boy]

Fellas,
Do what works best for you. I only do body weight exercises, my run times are about a 9 min mile for 4 miles or so, I weigh around 160 pounds so I'm by no means a big guy. And I'm pretty sure I've packed out more elk than a lot of the guys commenting on this thread. Don't take that wrong way by any means! Do what works well for you. If that means lifting a bunch of weight, then do it! If that means running really fast then do that!
I'm fortunate that I get to do a lot of hiking through out the summer with a pack and keep my regular routine of circuit training with out much for weights. I get around just fine and pack meat just fine. My biggest asset is mental toughness and a no quit attitude. If you can get that than you'll be just fine.

 

[rhunter424]

Why try to put a number on "must haves" for backcountry fitness? Too many factors for any of those numbers to mean anything honestly.

Enough is enough when YOU make that call. Do what works for you, your situation and your life priorities.

 

[Ironman8]

Some really good responses here from the usual suspects

I'll just add a little perspective if I can. We all get maybe 1 week, or if we're lucky, up to a month out of the entire year to hunt the mountains. I find it hard to believe that those who take fitness seriously are only training for that one endeavor. I have my own goals for fitness and honestly they don't entirely line up with what a true "hunter-athlete" would be looking for, therefore, those goals and methodology trump anything else, with "mountain shape" taking a secondary role. Your goals, whether they are aesthetic or performance based, should be considered first and foremost before how well it actually translates over to hunting, unless all you ever actually do is hunt. Face it, there are plenty of guys that hunt the mountains that are far out of shape compared to the guys here that care enough to obsess over what is or isn't "elk shape". A good, balanced, and CONSISTENT program will be sufficient for mountain hunting, but if you want to take it further, then the sky is the limit.

 

[strand]

From what I've seen, most of the absolute strongest men in the world would get winded walking from the squat rack to the water cooler. At the same time, when I look at a college cross country team those usually aren't the guys I would typically take hunting and ask to grab an #80 pack full of dead elk and hike 5 miles back to the pickup. I'd love to have an NFL running back with me as a personal packer in the elk or deer mountains. Those guys all lift big weights, run a lot, and are all around incredible athletes. Most professional hockey players, same thing. Now I understand professional athletes are the elite in their craft, and most of us are just average people with day jobs that try to kill big animals on our weekends off and limited vacation days.

My point is that these guys know what they need to do and how they need to train to be the best at what THEY do. The same should go for us as hunters. If you want to go hunting and run up a mountain with a 100 lb pack on, then by all means train that way. If you want to put on a #50 lb pack and hike around all day at an average pace, do that when you train. If you just want to go to the woods and drink beer with a tag in your pocket and a rifle leaning against your tent, well you can train for that too.

I try to train the way I hunt, and make sure I'm ready to handle the tasks that I know are ahead of me when I go hunting and eventually get a big animal on the ground. I need to pick up dead animals and move them around when quartering and field dressing, so I deadlift and do heavy rows. I need to get that meat loaded in my pack and get that pack strapped on my pack, so I do more rows and overhead press. Then I need to get that meat up and down mountains and back to the pickup, so I do squats and hike with a loaded pack, doing my best to mimic and slightly overload myself doing those movements. I also bench press because it fits in my routine and makes me feel good mentally. JMO, but as long as you can still strap on a loaded pack and walk a few miles you can still be successful in the elk woods. I hunt an OTC elk unit in CO every year, and it always impresses me when I see the same group of old fellas with an elk hanging on their meat pole every year. They are all retired, none of them use ATV's, and I think the youngest guy in that group is in his late 60's.

And for the sake of numbers and keeping to the OP's question, I think 307 nailed it with this: How about 250#squat, 300# dl, 200 bench, and 5 strict full ROM pull ups as milestones?
I don't think you'll find anyone that can do this, that can't hold his own on a mountain hunt. The 5 ROM pull ups really keep everything balanced, because plain and simple you can't do a pull up if you're too fat.

 

[S.Clancy]

I don't know about "strong enough for hunting" but I would say for comparing strength to body weight, your numbers seem a little low. I have a crappy bench but the average guy should be able to put up more than their own bodyweight. If you're talking 1 rep max, I would say 2.5x bodyweight for deadlift, 2x for squat, 1.5x for bench. I don't do cleans and such so I have no opinion there.

Personally, I am trying to enhance my overhead strength while preserving my shoulders. To that end, I've been playing with the "push press" a little bit. I think I'm going to start doing it as a single arm dumbell movement...

I can say, one of my hunting partners should've spent less time running really far and more time lifting heavy stuff. As it turns out, it's beneficial to be able to comfortably carry your pack uphill.

Completely agree.

I like these standards, it's honestly just a matter of dedication in years. My physical strength gives me the ability in the mountains to say "Yea, I can get an animal out of there" as well as keeping me from getting injured. Heavy lifting creates some dense ass bones and thick tendons.

 

[Poser]

This is an extreme example and well out of the reach of likely everyone on this forum and anyone any of know personally, but, nonetheless, it illustrates something that is a common misconception:

800 lbs deadlift at 190 lbs bodyweight: https://www.instagram.com/p/BB-9Yn6jm3A/?taken-by=teamstrongwood

By doing low volume, heavy lifting, you don't have to get excessively "big" to be strong. Hypertrophy lifting, which is what many people to default to because of the popularity of bodybuilding/produces the most aesthetic results, makes your muscles big. Muscle size and strength are not mutually exclusive, ie you can be "strong" without being unnecessarily "big".

 

[S.Clancy]

Two points,

1) Thats a borderline WR deadlift, and the man that own the 181 record, Ed Coan, is both considered the greatest powerlifter ever and banned by the IPF for life for failing multiple drug tests. Regardless, if true, this guy is a straight up mutant.

2) To go along with point 1, if you are a natural athlete, you really don't have to worry about getting "too big". Believe me, tens of thousands have tried, the only ones that achieved "too big" have access to other...supplements. The only time you will ever be "too big" as a natural athlete is if you are fat, or an absolute genetic freak.

3) I know I said two, but...Track your progress, find out what works for YOU, lift stuff, and CRUSH IT!!!!

 

[BackcountryBowhunter]

It really depends on you and your body. Just because you weigh 200 pounds does not mean you should be squatting 400 pounds. You really dont need to be doing 1 rep or 2 reps if you want to be in good shape. If you just want to be able to run around on the mountain with a 40+ pound pack on then you need to do high reps with some weight. Really work on your core and lower body. My high school friends squats 530 pounds but I know he wouldnt last on the mountain due to the way he trains.

 

[robby denning]

Too much is when you're constantly nursing injuries incurred at the gym, IMO