When do you move on to other options?

[gearguywb]

I always find it interesting working with small business owners. I have found through the years that some of the best at custom type trades (which I consider guiding a part of), rifle builders, etc., are fantastic at what they do.....but not very good at running a business, communication, etc.

A couple of quick examples.

Called a local, very well known rifle builder. Interested in what he could offer on a custom hunting build. Nothing after two weeks.

Used "contact us" on a well recognized outfitters site. NADA 3 weeks later.

Another well represented and respected outfitter. In all fairness he did call, but unfortunately I was on a conf call and couldn't take it. I called back...twice. He sent 3 different emails saying "I will call you in the morning". Nothing further, no calls.

I have worked with other outfitters in the past that were very responsive. Sometimes it would take a few days. No worries.

When do you say "Its time to move on". I get life happens, people get busy, etc. etc. At some point though....

 

[butcherboy]

As a small business owner myself, we get all kinds of phone calls and msgs left on voicemail. Simply don’t have time to return every call and a lot are just not worth it like “just checking prices” “interested in” “might have something to bring in” etc. The customers that really want me to do the work are the ones that call back during business hours and actually talk to me.

If I say I will call someone back or email them then I always do that. It may take me a few days to remember to do it though. Lol

 

[WhatToHunt]

I get miffed by this too and it has ruined my perception of a business more than once. Although, I try to remind myself I don't know their circumstances and maybe something is keeping them from responding quickly (i.e. family emergency, they're ill, etc.). It doesn't always work, but I do try. Ha!

 

[gearguywb]

As a small business owner myself, we get all kinds of phone calls and msgs left on voicemail. Simply don’t have time to return every call and a lot are just not worth it like “just checking prices” “interested in” “might have something to bring in” etc. The customers that really want me to do the work are the ones that call back during business hours and actually talk to me.

If I say I will call someone back or email them then I always do that. It may take me a few days to remember to do it though. Lol

I don't get this (as a small business owner myself). If someone calls during business hours, and takes the time to leave a message saying "I am interested in XXXX", you don't call them back?

When you call about a hunt, in order to get a call back, what would you say? I start about every conversation where I am looking at spending (to me anyway) a significant amount of money with "I am interested in". Not sure what else I would say to get you interested enough in a potential customer to return the call.

 

[bsnedeker]

I don't get this (as a small business owner myself). If someone calls during business hours, and takes the time to leave a message saying "I am interested in XXXX", you don't call them back?

When you call about a hunt, in order to get a call back, what would you say? I start about every conversation where I am looking at spending (to me anyway) a significant amount of money with "I am interested in". Not sure what else I would say to get you interested enough in a potential customer to return the call.

I agree with this 100%. I think that attitude is unfortunately very common among a lot of small business owners from my experience. I have zero tolerance for it. If you don't call me back that tells me you are not interested in my business. I'm not going to do any work to convince someone to take my money. If you don't want my money I'll find someone who does.

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[Glory]

I try to call everyone back, even if I am booked solid. Sometimes I send a text telling them when i can talk. Call during the peak of the season when I am working 80hrs a week it might be a little while and their is a chance it will get lost in the shuffle.

funny you mention this though. I just made a major purchase for my business. (New boat). I did my homework and talked to (or tried to) about every major manufacturer. So many said “let me find out” to simple questions and never called me back. Zero responses to any emails I sent for several manufacturers. I was genuinely surprised at how bad the sales were for those companies. After dealing with that I went with a local dealer.

 

[mt100gr.]

Small business owner here, as well.

I make every effort to return every call, text, email, etc. even if I know they're just shopping. In an age where everyone literally has a phone/computer IN THEIR POCKET there's no excuse for poor communication. ....IMO. Drives me nuts when people don't respond. Even more so when they tell me that they "are just SO busy"...

And to the question asked: unless I have a history with someone that I need to contact, I'll move down the list pretty darn quick if someone tells me they don't want my business by not responding.

 

[ODB]

Having worked with a custom one-man rifle builder, in can tell you factually there is no way you can answer the phone every time it rings or have your iPhone on the bench waiting for a notification from email, text, Facebook or what have you and get your work done. There is a reason small gun builders have the reputation of being slow or unresponsive. They can build guns or respond to every “I was thinking about..” call. Especially when inletting, checkering, or cutting metal. You just can’t be interrupted during that work.

I used to get pissy about this until I worked for the guy. Then it all made sense. There are just too many old clients who want to shoot the shit or new guys who are kicking tires.

If you call Purdey, guess who will never answer the phone? The stocker, engraver, metal smith, or anyone who is actually building your gun. Put all these hats on one guy and it gets that much worse.

that said, if you definitely want to work with the guy, keep calling. And if you know anyone who has worked with them, ask them to drop your name or drop his. It does help. it also helps to be sure the shop does the type of work you want done - and have your money ready. And lastly...don’t use the word “thinking.” Use “want.”

 

[bsnedeker]

Having worked with a custom one-man rifle builder, in can tell you factually there is no way you can answer the phone every time it rings or have your iPhone on the bench waiting for a notification from email, text, Facebook or what have you and get your work done. There is a reason small gun builders have the reputation of being slow or unresponsive. They can build guns or respond to every “I was thinking about..” call. Especially when inletting, checkering, or cutting metal. You just can’t be interrupted during that work.

I used to get pissy about this until I worked for the guy. Then it all made sense. There are just too many old clients who want to shoot the shit or new guys who are kicking tires.

If you call Purdey, guess who will never answer the phone? The stocker, engraver, metal smith, or anyone who is actually building your gun. Put all these hats on one guy and it gets that much worse.

that said, if you definitely want to work with the guy, keep calling. And if you know anyone who has worked with them, ask them to drop your name or drop his. It does help. it also helps to be sure the shop does the type of work you want done - and have your money ready. And lastly...don’t use the word “thinking.” Use “want.”

I can't imagine wanting to work with someone so badly that I would go through all of that effort to get them to call me back. What you are describing to me sounds like someone who doesn't know, or simply doesn't care about how to run a business. If they are so busy that they do not have the ability to return phone calls that means they should be making enough money to hire someone to answer the phone for them. If they have so many repeat customers that they don't need new business, well, good for them. I'll find someone who wants my business and demonstrates it by returning a phone call.

There is a pretty well known rifle builder here in the valley that I wanted to do business with. I actually broke my own rule and called them three times...no return phone call at any point. I guess I didn't use the proper code words for them so my business went to a local one-man shop that knocked it out of the park for me.

If it's that hard to get a hold of someone to do business with them I wonder what your experience would be like if you ever had an issue with the product or service that you were paying them for?

 

[ODB]

I can't imagine wanting to work with someone so badly that I would go through all of that effort to get them to call me back. What you are describing to me sounds like someone who doesn't know, or simply doesn't care about how to run a business. If they are so busy that they do not have the ability to return phone calls that means they should be making enough money to hire someone to answer the phone for them. If they have so many repeat customers that they don't need new business, well, good for them. I'll find someone who wants my business and demonstrates it by returning a phone call.

There is a pretty well known rifle builder here in the valley that I wanted to do business with. I actually broke my own rule and called them three times...no return phone call at any point. I guess I didn't use the proper code words for them so my business went to a local one-man shop that knocked it out of the park for me.

If it's that hard to get a hold of someone to do business with them I wonder what your experience would be like if you ever had an issue with the product or service that you were paying them for?

I understand where you are coming from. But I also know enough builders to know that their interest lies in building rifles and not typically building a business. They make a living, yes, but don’t want to be the next big thing. For most, their standards are so high they can’t tolerate anyone else touching their work so are left to work alone. Just the nature of the beast.

look at it this way, if you call a guy at 10am and he answers your call on the first ring and can have you work done in a week - he ain’t very busy or in demand.

I guess I’m lucky that an offer to work part-time for $0 an hour resulted in making inroads with some of the best builders we have. And I think you have to get past the “they don’t want my money” perspective. No, they don’t. It’s not just about chasing dollars - it’s about other things to them. You really have to have seen it from the inside to get their perspective.

but if you found a guy who did what you want for what you wanted to pay, stick with him. Alls good in the end.

 

[bsnedeker]

I understand where you are coming from. But I also know enough builders to know that their interest lies in building rifles and not typically building a business. They make a living, yes, but don’t want to be the next big thing. For most, their standards are so high they can’t tolerate anyone else touching their work so are left to work alone. Just the nature of the beast.

look at it this way, if you call a guy at 10am and he answers your call on the first ring and can have you work done in a week - he ain’t very busy or in demand.

I guess I’m lucky that an offer to work part-time for $0 an hour resulted in making inroads with some of the best builders we have. And I think you have to get past the “they don’t want my money” perspective. No, they don’t. It’s not just about chasing dollars - it’s about other things to them. You really have to have seen it from the inside to get their perspective.

but if you found a guy who did what you want for what you wanted to pay, stick with him. Alls good in the end.

Yeah, totally agree! I don't have any issue with how a guy wants to run his business. Some folks treat it like a business, some people treat it like a hobby that they make a living at. My personal preference is to do business with people who look at it as a serious business, but to each his/her own!

 

[ODB]

Yeah, totally agree! I don't have any issue with how a guy wants to run his business. Some folks treat it like a business, some people treat it like a hobby that they make a living at. My personal preference is to do business with people who look at it as a serious business, but to each his/her own!

not to belabor this, but for the guys I know, it’s beyond a hobby. When prices start at 15k-20k it moves into the realm of functional art. Which is why they are impossible to please.

And yes, as my mom used to say, “To each his own, said the old lady as she kissed the cow!”

 

[bsnedeker]

not to belabor this, but for the guys I know, it’s beyond a hobby. When prices start at 15k-20k it moves into the realm of functional art. Which is why they are impossible to please.

And yes, as my mom used to say, “To each his own, said the old lady as she kissed the cow!”

Bad wording on my part...not trying to diminish what they do at all. Sorry about that!

 

[ReddingArcher]

As a business owner I see both sides of the argument. I completely understand it can be frustrating to not get a call back, I do my best to call everyone back either that day or the next but there are times when things slip through the cracks. Between running my businesses and the 50-60 employees I have there are going to be times when I forget to call someone back. There's also times when I get a call and its a small job that I cant get to in a timely fashion and I'll flat out tell them I don't have the time or the manpower to get to a small patch or garage that needs finished and will kick it to another contractor. Its not about not wanting your money its that I'd rather send it to another smaller contractor who has more time and can get the job done sooner than I'd be able to even get guys on it.

 

[elkguide]

I paint houses for a living. I have guys that work for me. I do my absolute best to call people back but since we have seasons here we have a busy time and a slow time. If you call me now, I will probably answer the phone. If you call me in July.... it might take a while. If you call me after March in most years, when I return your call I will likely be telling you that I will put you on the list for next year. (and you wouldn't believe the names that I have been called for not putting them to the top of the list!!!!!) Most of the good painters around here are at least a year out.

From all of the time that I have spent in gunshops, unfortunately gun guys do have attitudes and some of the best ones that I have worked with have attitudes and generally aren't the best business people. Of the outfitters that I guided for, some were people people and some just happened to have great areas and always seemed to have plenty of clients. One outfitter that I worked for wouldn't ever call me to line me up to work for him in September, until the middle of August.

So life is what life is. The few guided hunts that I have gone on, have been ones that I had studied out and made the decision that I wanted to hunt with them. One of the best hunts that I ever had, was run by a hunter that knew his animals and how to treat his clients in camp but was terrible at business.

Good luck.

 

[MattB]

The only qualifier I will add is that outfitters can be running 24/7 at certain times of the year, so if you are calling during a season they may be out of pocket for some time.

 

[Huntinaz]

As a consumer I generally can’t stand it when I’m being an earnest buyer and I can’t get my money spent. That’s frustrating. Typically I give up pretty easily, they don’t have a reasonable desire to get my business then they won’t get it. They generally won’t get it in the future either

It doesn’t bother me much when I am kicking tires, and I get that side of it. But if I feel like I’ve made it clear I want to do business and they don’t care then I move on quickly

There are scenarios of course where I will put up with it

 

[ElkChaser338]

My day job is sales and I’m also a small business owner. One of the key ways I’ve set myself apart from my competition is by consistently returning calls and following though on what I say I will do.

When dealing with other small businesses I’ve decided that if it takes considerable effort on my part to get in contact with them I don’t want to do business with them. I recently got burned by a local small business. It took considerable effort on my part to get ahold of them. When i finally did they told me they could do what I wanted in my time frame. They ended up not following through and blamed it on Covid and several other excuses. Conversation ended with me getting hung up on.

 

[Pro953]

From a small business standpoint, not all customers are worth dealing with. I regularly get inquiries that fall outside of the scope of our business. Or some customers but the nature of the questions being asked or level of client training required make it not worth having them as customers. Some customers are A-holes ans others just take forever with questions, talking, gossip etc... when you are very busy it’s hard to cut these folks off.

For a small business running at capacity, you can lose a lot of money trying to answer every call or email and make everyone happy. Sometimes that means filtering the amount of messages you respond to or only dealing with referrals.

At least once a day I have to tell someone, “ I am sorry I cannot take on your project”. It’s amazing how offended folks will get when you say this to them. I try and refer good clients out when we are booked, but I am not going to dump nightmare clients on my friends or my competitors.

I agree or sucks from a customer but it is just a reality.


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[gearguywb]

I certainly get some of the comments regarding inquiries that fall outside of the scope of the business. I get busy seasons, short staff, etc., etc.

I still fall on the side of when someone spends the time and energy to reach out saying "I am interested in X that you offer", you should probably spend the time to call back, text, email, carrier pigeon, whatever.

Why would you have a website and spend money on advertising if you aren't going to do anything with the leads that are coming in?