What's Your Max Range?

[Justin Crossley]

This is not meant to be any kind of bragging thread or pissing contest. I'm just curious after shooting in the cold bow challenge.

What is your max range assuming good conditions in a hunting situation?
How do you determine your max effective range?

 

[Travis Bertrand]

Here is a paper I wrote for school on the topic. To answer your question, it depends on animal and cartridge for me.

6.5 PRC= 1,000 for deer, 600 for elk
338 edge= 1400 for either


Thesis

Hunting with a long-range weapon that you are proficient in is more ethical than any other form of hunting as long as you are using hunting with practice, and know your limits.

Ethical Long Range Hunting​

If you ask another hunter what his favorite animal is what type of weapon he likes to use you will get a varied response that might be different than what another prefers. One might joke about what is better or a more successful tactic but when the fighting gloves come off is when you ask hunter how far is too far of a shot. Long-range hunting is a topic that has stirred up quite the debate amongst hunters. This question alone has divided and created bickering within a group of like-minded people that have a much larger problem they need to conquer to protect their hunting privileges.

What is long-range hunting? That is the first question we need to answer to determine how far is too far. If you ask a person hunting Whitetail deer out of a tree stand in central Iowa what is too far of a shot to ethically kill the deer, he will tell you a completely different answer than a guy hunting out of an elevated blind in Texas for the same species with the same weapon. The same goes for any other species one can legally hunt in two different regions of the country or state for that matter. The answer is it differs on your area and species you are pursuing.

Weapon of choice also is a significant component of long-range hunting though the feelings are the same. One person might feel it is unethical to take a shot greater than 30 yards using archery equipment, on a deer while another hunter might feel comfortable shooting up to 100 yards with the same equipment in a different region of the country. This is a product of the hunter's environment. Typically, shots are closer on the East Coast when sitting in a tree stand archery hunting while on the West-Coast, the preferred style of hunting is spot and stalk in the more open country. You have to find the animal and sneak in close to him without being detected. This is much harder especially if you are using archery equipment, so western hunters tend to practice at longer ranges than an East Coast hunter typically will practice at. Does this change the ethical range of effectiveness for an archery hunter? Is a basketball player more effective making a 3 point if he practices it religiously compared to another basketball Player who shoots only free throws? Common sense will tell us the answer to that question.

Why is shot distance such a compelling discussion amongst hunters? Is it their ego? Is it jealousy? Maybe a little bit of both as hunters tend to be very proud when they harvest an animal to provide clean meat for their family. It is a task that fulfills hunters with pride and the feeling of a great sense of accomplishment. If you asked a hunter who does not approve a long range hunting, his typical answer is, it is unethical to kill an animal at a long distance, or it takes away hunting from hunting. The usual feeling is, you are a better hunter the closer you can get to an animal. If you ask that same hunter if they archery hunt, they typically say yes or they have tried it. This is an interesting concept as studies show archery hunting has both the highest wound and recovery rates among all weapons of choice. Most studies show a range of recovery of archery kills to be between 78 and 82% on white-tailed deer (Ditchkoff et al.,1998) (Pederson et al.,2008). The same studies also found wounding rates to be considerably lower if you have killed over 20 deer in your life proving practice makes you a more proficient, ethical hunters. It has been a quoted out of studies of archery deer hunting that eight out of eleven deer with archery related wounds survived the wounds (Ditchkoff et al.,1998) (Pederson et al.,2008).

 

[Travis Bertrand]

continued...
Do you think archery hunting is more ethical than hunting with a rifle? When you compare statistics from studies that looked at rifle hunting, the lowest recovery rate is 88% for a Red deer and up to 99% for a muntjac deer. Subsequently, 95% of first shots with a rifle resulted in a one shot clean kill, and 81% of wounded animals were recovered with a follow-up shot (Aebischer et al., 2014). Studies have also shown wound rates between 1:1 and 1:4 with 1:1 being the most popular ratio in hunting literature (Ashby,1996). These comparisons are showing typical numbers of wounding and recovering deer of an ordinary rifle hunter and an average archery hunter. With the above statistics, research points to archery with a substantially higher wound rate than a rifle, or another weapon of choice. This is not comparing holding a compound bow at arm's length in the air with a rifle shooting at an extended range in the prone position and with a bipod on a steady rest typically found in long range hunting.

Whichever weapon you choose to hunt with, it is essential to understand that it as soon as the bullet or arrow leaves your weapon, it is merely a math equation on whether the projectile is going to impact where you want it to impact. Many factors will determine the trajectory of the flight. These factors include speed, Drag, time of flight, wind, and the weight of the projectile. These factors are the same if you shoot a compound bow at 20 yards or a rifle at 2000 yards. Your projectile travels in an arch until impact with another mass stops it. During that time of flight, the most significant factor is gravity and speed in which the projectile is traveling. A typical rifle projectile weighing 195 grains moving 3,100 feet per second (FPS) will drop due to gravity 205” over 1,000 yards. That is 17.08’. Almost half of the total loss of elevation of the projectile is lost in the last 200 yards. With a shot between 800-1000 yards, you lose roughly .43” per yard. With a standard arrow weighing 400 grains traveling 250 feet per second (FPS), you lose 22” of elevation between the ranges of 30 and 40 yards. This translates to 2.2” per every yard. This is important for your margin of error when shooting an animal after you have ranged it. If the animal takes a few strides away from between the time you range it and shoot, it can translate to a non-lethal shot if. The average vital region on a deer is 10” and if you are aiming in the center, you will have a 2-yard margin of error between 30 and 40 yards. If you are hunting with a long range rifle, you will have an 11-yard margin of error between 800 and 1,000 yards.

The two most influential long range shooters are Todd Hodnett and Bryan Litz. Todd trains the military for long-range snipers and has produced numerous literature and videos on the subject(Bertrand, 2016). Bryan Litz has designed and developed a program called Applied Ballistics which is a program using advanced mathematical formulas that have been tested in a plethora of scenarios. Applied Ballistics is the standard on coming up with the mathematical equation of a long-range shot. Bryan has tested many projectiles in labs to come up with accurate ballistic models and trajectory flights. Together they have also come up with a Weapons employment zone (WEZ) analysis which is a mathematical formula behind the probability of hitting a target at a given distance through uncertain parameters(Litz, 2012). The WEZ analysis is an accurate measurement of any person effectiveness while shooting a rifle. You can use the same parameters and apply them to any weapon system whether it be archery equipment, muzzleloading equipment, or a long range rifle.

Using the WEZ analysis, you can find your maximum effective range by practicing and inputting data into the formula, for a confident shooter using premium equipment, the WEZ analysis shows you can be 91% accurate at 1200 yards with a target the size of a standard IPSC target of 18.5" wide and 30" tall (Litz, 2012).

When it comes down to taking the life of the animal you are pursuing, it is not only the hunter’s responsibility to quickly make the kill; it is their moral and ethical pursuit most strive to achieve. Shooting an unalerted animal with a 91% chance of a mortal wound which will result in a relatively sudden death by hydrostatic shock is more ethical than hunting an animal at a typical range of 30 yards with a recovery rate of around 80% and a slower death by hemorrhage.

It doesn’t matter if an archer has the skill and knowledge to take a deer at 100 yards or if a sportsman is shooting a rifle at 1,500 yards at a deer. There is a physical limit to one’s range that can not be overcome by ability. If the projectile does not have the kinetic energy to kill the animal at the given range it stands ethically, then the shot is too far. With the general rule of thumb of 1,000 ft.lbs for deer, and 1,500 ft.lbs for elk. Using the same rifle as the previous example, the maximum range to adequately supply enough kinetic energy to kill a deer would be 1,750 yards and 1,300 yards for elk. For an arrow, the general rule of thumb is 30 ft.lbs for deer and 40 ft.lbs for elk. With the same arrow shooting the same speed in the previous example, the maximum range an archer can ethically shoot a deer would be 150 yards and 90 yards respectively for elk. Both of these examples far exceeds the vast majority of most shooters or archers ability however one should never attempt a fatal shot beyond these distances. With a wide range of cartridges offered in rifles, it is easy to choose a caliber and bullet that will extend the capabilities of a rifle while an archer’s most significant limitation is one’s strength to pull a bigger bow back to supply more energy. Kinetic energy is an essential measurement of equipment performance often overlooked.

Long range hunting whether it is with a bow, muzzleloader, or rifle should not be defined by parameters but by skill and equipment being used. It is unfair to judge sportsman by their method of take in the field based off of an emotional response. It is also unfair to the animal to attempt a shot at a distance that exceeds your WEZ analysis or your maximum effective range at that given distance. As a sportsman, it is vital to not only know your limits but to have the discipline to stay within those limits when in the field and weather conditions. Extending your maximum effective range is done with understanding trajectory flight, having the correct equipment, implementing proper form, and most importantly practice at the range. Hunters with the adequate equipment shooting beyond their maximum effective range provide a means for division among sportsman and should not represent the highly skilled individuals who take the field who shoot within their limits.

References​

Aebischer, Wheatley, Rose, & Sueur. (2014) Factors Associated with Shooting Accuracy and Wounding Rate of Four Managed Wild Deer Species in the UK, Based on Anonymous Field Records from Deer Stalkers. Retrieved from https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4198128/



Ashby, E. (1996). Arrow Lethality. Retrieved from https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&...VuZGx5LmNvbXxob21lfGd4OjM2MDIyM2ViZjQ0ZjMwYmQ



Bertrand, T. (2016) Long Range Made Easy, DVD Review. Retrieved from http://www.rokslide.com/long-range-made-easy-dvd-review/

Ditchkoff, Welch, Lochmiller, Masters, Starry, & Dinkines.(1998) Wounding Rates of White-tailed Deer with Traditional Archery Equipment. Retrieved from http://wp.auburn.edu/deerlab/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/581998-SEAFWA.pdf



Litz, B. (2012) Weapon Employment Zone (WEZ) Analysis retrieved from http://www.appliedballisticsllc.com/Articles/ABDOC115_ProbabalisticWEZ.pdf



Pederson, Berry, & Bossart. (2008) Wounding Rates of White-tailed Deer with Modern Archery Equipment. Retrieved from http://www.seafwa.org/pdfs/articles/Pedersen-31-34.pdf

 

[MaraviaDave]

Excellent!! I agree 100% I believe the primary take-away for long range hunters should be to; 1) identify the maximum yardage the bullet still has adequate terminal ballistic performance to 2) identify the maximum yardage the shooter is competent in shooting to. Based on their rifle system (precision/group size, ammunition/Extreme Spread, etc) and their own ability (wind reading, shooting from field positions, etc). Using the WEZ tool, training rifles and thoroughly understanding ballistic solvers inputs/outputs should be considered fundamental work/knowledge to long range hunters.

Whichever distance (yardage) is shorter, when making a comparison between 1 & 2 above, should be considered the absolute maximum a long range hunter should be willing to make a shot. I believe that when making this determination an ethical hunter should absolutely err on the side of being conservative.

 

[Justin Crossley]

Great posts guys. I think the part where most of us get off track is thinking we are more capable than we are. Obviously the rifles, optics, and projectiles available today are capable of some extreme ranges.

I think that my max range for hunting deer and bear is whatever range I can consistently hit a 10"x10" target on my first, cold bore shot. Elk is the same but with a 12"x12" target. By consistently I mean somewhere above 90%.

What do you guys think of that as far as a standard for determining one's max effective range?

 

[MaraviaDave]

THE POST BELOW HAS BEEN COPIED & PASTED FROM AN EMAIL THAT I SENT TO A FRIEND AWHILE AGO. ALTHOUGH THERE'S QUITE A FEW SPECIFICS THAT RELATE TO HIM...I FELT LIKE THERE WERE SOME CORE CONCEPTS AND APPLICABILITY RELATED TO THIS THREAD.

The purpose of this is to outline the plan I’ve been following, highlighting the principles and tools, I’ve been using to prepare myself to shoot at extended ranges. With a focus on ways to understand my limitations, which helps me to determine what are high probability shots and ultimately increase the level of shooting confidence brought to the hunt. In the interest of length and time...I’ll use choppy sentences, bullet points and hyperlinks...and write as if I’m making statements of fact to someone who’s starting at square one. Which is DEFINITELY NOT the case with all readers. A lot of this stuff is personal opinion and subjective. It’s just going to be faster this way......

There are two categories of guns, training rifles and hunting rifles, they should work together to form a system where your training has a direct application to hunting. I use 4 guns to accomplish this.

Training Rifles

• 22 LR (rimfire)
  • Rifle: Vudoo Gunworks
  • Scope: NightForce, 2.5-10x42, NXS, MOAR reticle, SFP
  • Barrel: Bartlein - Kukri contour, 18”
  • Ammo: Lapua Center-X
    
• 6.5 Creedmoor
  • Rifle: G.A. Precision
  • Scope: NightForce, 4-16x50, ATACR, MOAR reticle, FFP
  • Barrel: Bartlein – Med. Palma, 23”, Thunder Beast Arms suppressor
  • Ammo: Hornady 147 gr ELD-Match

Hunting Rifles

• 300 PRC
  • Rifle: G.A. Precision
  • Scope: NightForce, 4-16x50, ATACR, MOAR reticle, FFP
  • Barrel: Proof – Sendero contour, 26”, APA Lil’ Bastard muzzle brake
  • Ammo: handload – Hornady 212 ELD-X
    
• 375 H&H
  • Rifle: G.A. Precision
  • Scope: NightForce, 2.5-10x42, NXS, MOAR reticle, SFP
  • Barrel: Bartlein – Light Palma, 22”, APA Lil’ Bastard muzzle brake
  • Ammo: handload – Barnes 270 gr LRX

Training & Hunting Rifles – components shared by all 4 rifles

• Stock: Manners EH1
  • Ultralight Adjustable Cheekpiece ( ~3 ounces)
  • Bipod Mount: Picatinny rail
  • Tripod Mount: Really Right Stuff Plate – slightly forward of the magazine well / floor plate
  • Sling Attachment: Flush Cups on the left side of stock (definitely no sling swivel studs)
• Trigger: Trigger Tech Primary
  • 2.25 lbs trigger weight
• Scope Mount:
  • Picatinny rail
  • Scope Rings: American Precision Arms, Tru-Loc
  • Scope Level: Darrell Holland Signature Series

All four rifles weigh within +/- 3 ounces of each other. They have similar balance points, as a function of barrel length and material/contour (e.g. Proof 26” carbon Sendero vs. Bartlein 18” steel Kukri).

The idea being that you’re training with essentially the same platform you’ll be hunting with.

Admittedly this is an expensive set of rifles. A cheaper option for your training rifles would be to use a Manners EH1 stock, with all of the features listed above.....in a mini-chassis configuration. Then you’d need two barreled actions (with mounted scopes) a 22 LR and 6.5 Creedmoor. This would allow you to simply switch back and forth between barreled actions...depending on what your training goals are. I do 80% of my training with a rimfire.

Next, pick a well rounded hunting cartridge and have it in a rifle dedicated to hunting. Something like a 300 PRC. Again, same stock, trigger, reticle etc.

Some might say this is an expensive setup. I’d argue that there a lot of hunters who have a safe full of mediocre guns/scopes, chambered for cartridges that are so close in performance that they don’t gain much from one to another. Why not get a couple purpose built rifles ....it’ll cost less in the long run. Or, hunters will spend their money on the newest ATV/UTV, jacked up trucks, or chase the latest peripheral hunting gear. It’s a matter of priorities. If you want to be a precision rifleman/ hunter you need to get the right tools and have money for ammunition to actually practice. Anyways, enough self-righteousness.... moving on.

a couple of other key pieces.......Kestrel w/ Applied Ballistics software, Or, Kestrel w/ Hornady’s 4 DOF. A phone app won’t cut it, when it comes to truing turrets and trajectory (this is key)

• Applied Ballistics books, Hornady 4DOF white papers, spend time on Snipers Hide forums, etc.......look for written resources outside of the hunting community to supplement the information you’re already getting from hunting resources
• Attend a training course, if possible. At the very least...consider Snipers Hide – online training (very affordable)
• Use Ballistic-X (phone app) for measuring group size, true range zero, offsets and ATZ (adjust to zero. Especially valuable for shooting paper at long range (truing ballistic software))

 

[MaraviaDave]

CONTINUED


Training – This can be broken down into a couple of core concepts. Understanding how to properly apply good shooting fundamentals. Understanding how shooting from various field positions affects your level of accuracy. Understanding how to make second shot corrections (be your own spotter) – this is an area where people struggle, primarily because they don’t have proper shooting fundamentals (not square behind the rifle and recoil is exploiting their weakness/path of least resistance) and are using too much magnification. While training focus on positional techniques. Shooting prone is only valuable to a point.....shoot off your pack (lying down, sitting behind it), shoot off a tripod (sitting, kneeling, standing), use a lightweight bag off a rock/limb/anything....be creative....stress your ability to apply the fundamentals and find out what will work in hunting scenarios. This will help you to flesh out proper technique....especially while dry firing (because problems won’t be masked by recoil) and while shooting rimfire.

• Dry Firing
  • http://www.dstprecision.net/order-dfat.html
  • “This device allows you to use the rifle and optic to dryfire practice in a very small area. With this adapter most scopes focus in the 11-15 feet range, depth of field is about 6”. By increasing your parallax distance you can sometimes increase that focal distance. With proper lighting you can use your scope at maximum magnification. Perfect for in the house, in the garage or a small backyard. Use this device to practice different positions, balance points on the rifle, slung vs unslung, various support bag combinations. I have found the D.F.A.T to be extremely valuable in determining how small I can make my "wobble" with non-prone positions. Usually shooters can get a good idea of their abilities and improvements by dry firing on known "MOA" size targets.” (from DFAT’s website).
  • The amount of positional training and it’s relationship to stability/wobble zone...can not be stressed enough!! This is a great first step in learning what size (MOA/MIL) targets you have the ability to hit....based on your shooting position (e.g. prone to standing off-hand).
  • Unlimited practice, at NO cost, after the initial purchase price.
• 22 LR (rimfire)
  • Know Your Limits – rack
    • Circular steel targets ¼”, ½”, ¾”, 1”, 1 ¼”, 1 ½”, 1 ¾”, 2”
    • Set KYL rack at 50 and 100 yards
    • Shoot positionally and then figure out your MOA accuracy in various shooting positions
  • Shoot out to distance (0 – 300+ yards)
    • Shoot paper and steel targets
  • Rimfire Scaling Tool
    • This is a great tool for determining the equivalency of distance between your 22 LR and your centerfire hunting rifle
      • See link below: LR22LR_v1.1 (scaling tool-2)
      • https://finnaccuracy.com/blogs/fa-news/22lr-long-range-trainer-how-to-get-best-out-of-it
    • You can scale for distance and wind drift – but not at the same time.
    • If you are interested in this ...let’s talk on the phone. It’s much easier to talk through than it is to write about it.
    • This is an incredible tool !!!
  • Spotting your own shots
    • I shoot in sandy areas, or on paper, crank my windage turret (L or R) an unknown amount....shoot, spot the impact, measure the distance with my reticle and quickly send another shot using my correction. This is an awesome way to train yourself to watch for impacts and quickly correct. You learn to use the reticle for what it is.....a ruler that’s 3 inches in front of your nose.
  • Ammunition
    • This is key...without consistent ammo, you’re spraying and praying, without a way to correlate accuracy with your ability
    • Lapua has a test center in Arizona. They work with Vudoo Gunworks often and have a fixture to hold VGWs barreled actions. It’s really easy...send them your barreled action and for $50 (yep, it’s that cheap) they’ll shoot 10-15 different lots of their ammo at 50 and 100 yards and then tell you which lot number shoots best. You can then buy 5,000 rounds directly from them, for the cheapest price you can find online and they’ll ship it to you along worth your barreled action.
• 6.5 Creedmoor
  • A lot of the above stuff applies here. The primary differences are
    • Learning to manage recoil
      • Although the recoil is relatively mild...you’ll be able to distinguish errors in shooting fundamentals...in comparison to your rimfire
      • Expect (work towards) perfection....’cause harder recoiling rifles are going to exploit your errors even more....especially spotting your own shots
    • Wind reading
      • Although you’ll get a lot of experience with your rimfire.......you won’t get experience with terrain affected wind....you need to shoot longer distances

Hunting – I don’t ‘practice’ a whole with my hunting rifles. I simply get an accurate load, true my turrets/bullet trajectory and then rely on my ballistic software. I believe that almost everything that you need to learn can be done with your two training rifles. As a side note; in the field ...distance to the target, time and opportunity dictate the complexity of my firing solution. Close....pull up and shoot with the center of the reticle. Slightly farther...hold over using the reticle. Slightly further...refer to the drop chart taped to my stock and dial. Slightly further.....use my Kestrel and dial (thinking long and hard about my shooting position (MOA level of accuracy vs target size), environmental conditions, possibilities of getting closer....shot success probabilities....can I justify it from an ethical perspective). The more I shoot the more conservative I become about the shots I’m willing to take. Another point; my absolute maximum range is based on the distance I can shoot and still expect bullet performance. So, in a nutshell my maximum shot distance is whatever is going to be the shortest distance....maximum bullet range performance or the level of accuracy I feel like I’m capable of at the time. In other words...I’m not going to shoot at a bull moose at 600 yards, from the prone with a rear bag and no wind...I could do it from a target perspective, but the bullet won’t give me the performance I want to make a clean kill. Switch gears....800 yards at a relaxed Coues deer using a 300 PRC, with the same shooting position and environmental conditions ... then yes I’d take the shot .... after dry firing at the buck a number of times to ensure that I’m holding a small enough MOA on the target to break the shot with confidence. Remember distance buys us time and opportunity...to spin a Kestrel and dry fire the rifle...If I don’t have time to do that...I’m rushing the shot too much and I have no business launching a bullet.

 

[XLR]

@Justin Crossley & @Travis Bertrand Just out of curiosity... Lets add this to the question. And would be interested to hear if any answers are affected by this. What is your Max Range when by yourself, and when you have spotters with you...

 

[wind gypsy]

Great posts guys. I think the part where most of us get off track is thinking we are more capable than we are. Obviously the rifles, optics, and projectiles available today are capable of some extreme ranges.

I think that my max range for hunting deer and bear is whatever range I can consistently hit a 10"x10" target on my first, cold bore shot. Elk is the same but with a 12"x12" target. By consistently I mean somewhere above 90%.

What do you guys think of that as far as a standard for determining one's max effective range?

I think that's a great way of doing it and I think that method if proven out would reduce what a lot of people claim is their max range.

I know it's easy to get confident after ringing steel repetitively on a familiar range and forget that first shot or two you needed to walk into the target. It's also much easier to nail your wind calls on a range you're familiar with than it is shooting across some canyon you've never shot across before.

Edit: this link is a much better and more thorough take on WEZ than my amateur paragraph that follows it. Interesting how the realistic ranges from it and the ones quoted by Travis are vastly different. My take is the 6" circle target is too small for animal vitals comparison and a full size IPSC is probably a bit large. http://www.longrangeonly.com/a-users-guide-to-dispersion-analysis/
I think the WEZ method is a good way to look at it too - shoot a 10 shot group and measure the max distance from the POA and multiply by 2 to calculate MOA accuracy rather than measuring group size. Use a realistic wind level of accuracy (Hint: its more than 1 or 2 MPH for nearly everybody). Then look at that hit percentage and understand that it is probably higher than actual because you're not going to shoot as accurately with adrenaline in field positions as you are off your belly with a rear bag at the range and you've probably got more velocity variability due to changing conditions.

I thought I had my poop pretty much squared away and have been humbled and my "max range" isn't what I once thought it was.. I see lots of other folks out there who are overconfident because they've hit steel at long range a couple times recently and see a future of them also being humbled.

Maybe I'm just a little riled up on the topic. I watched this BRO vid this weekend and didn't catch good vibes.

The title of the vid seems to emphasize how long the shot was like it was an accomplishment. Then I watched the vid and saw the 1st shot miss way high, the second hit the guts, and some luck to have a 3rd opportunity to make a good shot. I dont point this out to criticize Brady for taking the shot but more so BRO for focusing on the distance when the shooting wasn't something to be proud of. At the end of the day, its probably still more accurate than folks doing deer drives in the midwest and flinging lead at deer on a full sprint.

 

[wind gypsy]

@Justin Crossley & @Travis Bertrand Just out of curiosity... Lets add this to the question. And would be interested to hear if any answers are affected by this. What is your Max Range when by yourself, and when you have spotters with you...

There may be some nuance to the answer but IMO if you're not confident enough to take the shot without a spotter you probably shouldn't be taking the shot.

 

[wind gypsy]

Another thought - I listened to Jon Pynch discuss his stone sheep hunt this year on his podcast. Jon is one of the best precision rifle shooters in the world and shot a stone at 775 (cool vid on his 'gram). He indicated he wasn't fully comfortable to take that shot and found a way to take a "practice" shot at a rock without spooking the sheep just to make sure he was good to go. If someone with that ability and understanding of ballistics is that cautious about taking a 775 yard shot, there are a whole bunch of folks who are overconfident.

 

[Travis Bertrand]

@Justin Crossley & @Travis Bertrand Just out of curiosity... Lets add this to the question. And would be interested to hear if any answers are affected by this. What is your Max Range when by yourself, and when you have spotters with you...

Honestly it won’t change much. For me to shoot that far with or without a spotter, conditions need to be perfect and time on my side. The shot is recorded so I can go back and watch if I didn’t see it through my scope for some reason.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Justin Crossley]

@Justin Crossley & @Travis Bertrand Just out of curiosity... Lets add this to the question. And would be interested to hear if any answers are affected by this. What is your Max Range when by yourself, and when you have spotters with you...

That's a good variable to consider. For me, it wouldn't change my decision. It's more likely I would pass a shot due to not being able to get it on video. I know there have been times when I've passed a shot because I didn't have time to get a camera rolling. I find it very valuable to record shots if possible so I can verify the results after the shot.

 

[bruceleroy]

I shoot an 18" barreled 308 so I'm sure some of you tink I should stay under 100 yards. I am, however, fully confident in open country on a big game animal out to 450. Thats it. Sure, I can hit with almost 100% likelihood out to 750 but the numbers arent on my side with the 2650 MV and flying brick that i use.

 

[duckhunter175]

I practice out to 800... farthest shot I've taken on game was 411y and it was successful.

This fall I was lined up to take was I expected was going to be a 550ish yard shot on an Aoudad who was stationary. Ended up he started feeding and came right too me and with patience it turned into a 147y shot.

I would be comfortable on game to 600 as long as the wind was favorable or I had easy to identify indicators.

 

[30338]

700 yards, maybe 705.

 

[Billy Goat]

About 450 if it's perfect conditions. I'm no rifle shooter. I have shot long distance but don't do it enough. Still can't make wind calls. Maybe some day I'll put more time into it, but I really don't rifle hunt much.

As Justin said he got curious after the cold bow challenge. I'd be curious to try something similar with a rifle.

 

[Reburn]

Eh, I almost hate to respond as I'm afraid this is going to turn into a junk measuring contest. Ringing steel in favorable wind. Cold bore prone and rear supported 800 12" circle 85%+ currently. Hunting 300 and in, I'm very comfortable. 400 Max. Any further I'm looking to get closer. I can ring a 2moa gong at 300 and 400 sitting with bipod or sticks and rear unsupported with over a 95% hit accuracy with most of my guns. Periodically I'll do something similar to the cold bow challenge and go shoot 1 round and only 1 round a day at the distance I want to be hunting at. If I can't nail 2moa or the kill zone size which ever is smaller 5 times of 5 days from various positions I get uneasy.

 

[OXN939]

This is not meant to be any kind of bragging thread or pissing contest. I'm just curious after shooting in the cold bow challenge.

What is your max range assuming good conditions in a hunting situation?
How do you determine your max effective range?

Was wondering if you guys were going to implement a "Cold Bore Challenge" of some kind.

Used to shoot to 1K for work pretty regularly. When hunting, my acceptable margins of error are much lower, as making an ethical kill requires far more precision than incapacitating a target. So, when hunting, farthest I'll ever shoot is 450, and that's with my LR rig. Most of my hunting rifles wear optics with BDC reticles, and these max out at 300.

 

[freebird]

My rifle and scope are way more capable then me. 6.5prc and nightforce NXS. My personal farthest shot I would take is 500 yards. Heck I've even considered stepping down in caliber and scope.