What's the single greatest factor in "forgiveness?"

[billysmals]

What do you all think is the single greatest factor in a bow's "forgiveness"?

Brace height? Reflex? Dynamic brace? Arrow speed? Riser length? ATA? Something else??

People talk a lot about what makes a bow forgiving, but I was trying to quantify out what single factor is most responsible for a bow's forgiveness.

Forgiveness (as I understand it): The ability of a bow to create consistency/accuracy despite poor form or being out of tune...(maybe this is a bad definition?)

Thanks!

 

[Bump79]

This might sound simple... but having it set properly. The right draw length, the right ATA (not too short), an ok holding weight, the right peep height, all sight axis's set right, a properly spined arrow and a good tune.

For me with a hunting setup the biggest difference after this was a simple offset bracket for a stabilizer that balanced out my full quiver.

 

[big44a4]

For bow specs if I had to pick one I’d say brace height, but most important factor for me is grip geometry. How does the bows grip mesh with your structure.

For example I got one buddy can shoot Mathews great but not Hoyt. Another buddy can shoot prime/pse well but not Hoyt or Mathews. Once you take grip off not a ton you can do to make it fit you well. Some bows just mesh with people or do not mesh for that reason. The one contact point with the bow is the grip.

Other than that specs are just numbers. I’ve shot short BH or ATS bows better than some longer BH or ATA bows. So I don’t put a ton of weight into the specs side of the equation when choosing a new bow.

 

[robby denning]

I was gonna say Jesus but then read the post

I'm a simpleton, but when my draw length was too long, (prolly a 1/4" or so) I was very erratic. Could stack 3 at 50 then get an 8" flyer.

Finally had the pro-shop look at my form and he nailed it in 2 seconds.

He also said "optimum spine" is important

subscribed

 

[mighteywhitehunter]

I dont think you can pin "forgiveness" to a single factor. It is everything you mentioned plus the archer, their individual experience level, body mechanics and fitness level, and their skill level with said bow.

To me forgiveness is the archer and the bow putting the arrow where you want it to go when you shoot it regardless of shooting position, excitement level, and other exterior factors which may influence the shot.
I have shot several bows that should have been forgiving due to the factors you mentioned but were not in my experience.

 

[plebe]

I’ve asked this before on other forums, interested to read the responses here.

I think it’s hard to dispute that many mechanical broadheads are less responsive to certain shooter induced errors (and poor tuning) compared to many fixed broadheads. I know that’s not what you’re asking, but it’s part of the overall system, so maybe the most forgiving archery hunting system (from a precision standpoint) includes them.

 

[Justin (Raz) Rasmussen]

I was gonna say Jesus but then read the post

I'm a simpleton, but when my draw length was too long, (prolly a 1/4" or so) I was very erratic. Could stack 3 at 50 then get an 8" flyer.

Finally had the pro-shop look at my form and he nailed it in 2 seconds.

He also said "optimum spine" is important

subscribed

That's where my brain went too.

 

[billysmals]

I was gonna say Jesus but then read the post

I'm a simpleton, but when my draw length was too long, (prolly a 1/4" or so) I was very erratic. Could stack 3 at 50 then get an 8" flyer.

Finally had the pro-shop look at my form and he nailed it in 2 seconds.

He also said "optimum spine" is important

subscribed

I laughed so freaking hard at this.... That was a great answer! I agree with Jesus.

I guess my intention was to restrict the answer to the bow itself. I know many factors contribute to forgiveness and there is no "one" factor per se, but if you had to simplify it to some aspect of the bow what would it be? There are things the archer can do, which you all are absolutely crushing it when it comes to form and forgiveness, but most of that is modifiable.

In my mind forgiveness is a combination of modifiable and non-modifiable aspects. Form, draw length, arrow choice, anchor point, are all modifiable and this stuff easily affects forgiveness more for sure. But the bow is the platform so what part of the platform would you say contributes the most to forgiveness, the part that can't be changed? @big44a4 said brace height. (I also think grip is so important).

Like is it ATA: 10%, Brace: 40%, Reflex: 30%, Riser length: 20%, some other x-facto 100000%? Maybe I'm trying to isolate the variables too much???


LOVE the answers...

Keep em coming Rokslide

 

[billysmals]

I dont think you can pin "forgiveness" to a single factor. It is everything you mentioned plus the archer, their individual experience level, body mechanics and fitness level, and their skill level with said bow.

To me forgiveness is the archer and the bow putting the arrow where you want it to go when you shoot it regardless of shooting position, excitement level, and other exterior factors which may influence the shot.
I have shot several bows that should have been forgiving due to the factors you mentioned but were not in my experience.

What did you feel like contributed to those results? Was it all the factors you mentioned, or did you feel something on the less forgiving bow influenced you shooting it better?

I'm curious, because on paper, if bow X has better "forgiveness" specs, and bow Y doesn't, theoretically bow X should be easier to shoot? But if the opposite is true, what contributes to that?

 

[Skerhunter]

This might sound simple... but having it set properly. The right draw length, the right ATA (not too short), an ok holding weight, the right peep height, all sight axis's set right, a properly spined arrow and a good tune.

For me with a hunting setup the biggest difference after this was a simple offset bracket for a stabilizer that balanced out my full quiver.

This you can make any of the current hunting bows “forgiving” if you practice enough, once it’s set up correctly. I think most people stop short of “perfect tune” which includes all of the points above. This can give you the illusion that one is more forgiving than another.

 

[Billy Goat]

Less amount of time the arrow is on the string.


This can be a lot of different things, but the less the arrow is in the string, the less it's taking inputs from the bow/archer, which those things are rarely good.

Then there's a plethora of other things with rests, shooter, etc.

 

[TaperPin]

My vote goes to staying away from extremes. If every adjustment and component is on the ragged edge of working, may Jesus (my roofing friend) help us all. Crappy bow mostly worn out, cranked up heavier than it should be, peep off from where it should be a little, shooting form a little off, not tuned exactly right, wrong spine, wrong string, and then the person wonders why it’s so temperamental with different broadheads and hard to shoot. lol

 

[mighteywhitehunter]

What did you feel like contributed to those results? Was it all the factors you mentioned, or did you feel something on the less forgiving bow influenced you shooting it better?

I'm curious, because on paper, if bow X has better "forgiveness" specs, and bow Y doesn't, theoretically bow X should be easier to shoot? But if the opposite is true, what contributes to that?

I honestly couldn't pin down a specific thing about the last bow that was not very "forgiving" I have shot Hoyt, PSE, and Mathews over the years. That last one was 33in ATA, about a 6.5 in Brace, and had a 330-340 fps speed rating. It tuned well, shooting bullet holes, I Shot it for months pre season with broadheads but that season I hunted with it, it would just not put an arrow where I wanted it in hunting conditions. I sold it. Fast forward to the very next bow I bought and am still shooting today the Mathews TRX 34. It has almost the exact same specs as the less forgiving bow but I have been able to put every arrow(so far) where it needed to be in hunting conditions both near and far.

In my opinion "Forgiveness" specs change from person to person due to their physical build and shooting technique. If bow X was the most "forgiving" then every archer would only shoot that bow. But that is not the case because people are different sizes and strengths and people use a variety of hunting techniques to achieve the goal of a critter on the ground.

 

[Billy Goat]

My vote goes to staying away from extremes. If every adjustment and component is on the ragged edge of working, may Jesus (my roofing friend) help us all. Crappy bow mostly worn out, cranked up heavier than it should be, peep off from where it should be a little, shooting form a little off, not tuned exactly right, wrong spine, wrong string, and then the person wonders why it’s so temperamental with different broadheads and hard to shoot. lol

No.

Levi even made a video recently of a horribly out of tune bow he was shooting robinhoods with.

And while he is one of the best to play the unknown 3d game, in the world of competitive archers he's mmehhh, except for those contingency checks.


It's not extremes, and it's actually not even consistent weights and crap people can easily do.

Even wildly weak spine with broadheads is somewhat consistent
For people who would do that and what they think consistently shooting is.

 

[N2TRKYS]

Repeatability

 

[TaperPin]

No.

Levi even made a video recently of a horribly out of tune bow he was shooting robinhoods with.

And while he is one of the best to play the unknown 3d game, in the world of competitive archers he's mmehhh, except for those contingency checks.


It's not extremes, and it's actually not even consistent weights and crap people can easily do.

Even wildly weak spine with broadheads is somewhat consistent
For people who would do that and what they think consistently shooting is.

Well it’s good to know how a bow is set up, or its condition doesn’t matter.

 

[Sled]

Like @Bump79 said, I shoot short ATA better than long typically. The grip and ability to properly anchor are where my consistency lies. I've had some grips and bows I couldn't get consistent with over the years. Others have been like a well used baseball glove, it just fit.

 

[sndmn11]

Fit

 

[4th_point]

Arrows

What do you all think is the single greatest factor in a bow's "forgiveness"?

It's the arrows.

 

[nphunter]

Longer ATA for me, I jumped on the short ATA band wagon for while and my shooting went downhill. Switched back to a longer bow and instantly improved. I could actually shoot both of my kids bows better than my own bow even though neither draw length was correct for me. The one common was they were both 34”+ ATA and my bow was 29”.

Obviously fit and tune are factors but the bow is the biggest factor IMO. There is a reason target bows have long ATA and larger BH, they both make a bow more forgiving.