What's the deal with everyone using suppresors?

[robtattoo]

I thought you were from England…..that’s not Europe bro.

Ummmm....... please, do tell me which Continent my country belongs to. You can use Google if you like. Any search engine really. Or atlas.
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I'm happy to wait.

 

[bpurtz]

Huh?

Ask any audiologist about it. The concussive forces are transmitted through your facial bone structure and into the inner ear.

I can feel the concussive force standing or prone next to a person shooting, but I can't really feel anything when I'm the shooter with my braked rifle. Do you think the concussive forces you describe are happening with shotgun shooters too? Back when I shot competitive trap, I'd easily shoot 300+ shells a day and be standing next to 600+ more shots - many of those shooters with ported barrels.

 

[Ozarkansas]

And, look up bone conduction.

Also, the same waves are shaking the jello in your skull. I get a headache after shooting a one day match around people with brakes.

Also, the worst day was the stage where we had to shoot inside a tube. I should have taken the zero and walked away.

I’ve read that in a hypothetical scenario with perfect hearing protection, your skull attenuates about 40-60dB of noise. Meaning that you subtract 40-60 from the noise exposure to get your “real” exposure. That’s one reason why recoiless rifles (that generate upwards of 180 dB) have daily firing limits. The other reason is that the shockwave can literally concuss you.
For guys who aren’t shooting recoiless rifles, idk how much of a “shooter’s headache” is from recoil and how much is from blast. But I do know that even single un-muffed/plugged shots taken while hunting are very very bad for you

 

[hereinaz]

I’ve read that in a hypothetical scenario with perfect hearing protection, your skull attenuates about 40-60dB of noise. Meaning that you subtract 40-60 from the noise exposure to get your “real” exposure. That’s one reason why recoiless rifles (that generate upwards of 180 dB) have daily firing limits. The other reason is that the shockwave can literally concuss you.
For guys who aren’t shooting recoiless rifles, idk how much of a “shooter’s headache” is from recoil and how much is from blast. But I do know that even single un-muffed/plugged shots taken while hunting are very very bad for you

Yes, literally concuss is what happens from aggressive side port brakes.

By design, they direct a massive amount of gasses through the side ports to provide recoil reduction. Anyone sitting on the next bench over knows.

It’s not recoil. Recoil from a suppressor is “more” than recoil from an effective side port brake. So, it isn’t the recoil. I can shoot all day with a suppressor and go home happy. As soon as a friend comes with a brake, under a roof, concrete floor and benches I have to watch to avoid them. Move a couple benches, barricade myself away, etc.

When spotting I step out from under the roof because the blast makes me flinch. I can’t spot brakes rifles hardly at all at the range because it is contained.

It’s most definitely the concussive blast from abusive side ports that gives a headache.

A match consists of about 85 to 100 rounds, with six in your group, that is hundreds of rounds in a day. We have to help time and run the local matches, so we are right in there. Sometimes you get even more from the group 30 feet to the side of you depending on the range.

At matches, I switched to a suppressor and when my chore is over, I retreat at a safe distance from the blast.

It’s not something made up at all. Not everyone gets a headache. Maybe I get one cause of all the concussions I had playing football in high school.

I suppose the fact that I tend to shoot a lot more than the average means I have more exposure to notice it and I am verified as a big baby.

 

[hereinaz]

I can feel the concussive force standing or prone next to a person shooting, but I can't really feel anything when I'm the shooter with my braked rifle. Do you think the concussive forces you describe are happening with shotgun shooters too? Back when I shot competitive trap, I'd easily shoot 300+ shells a day and be standing next to 600+ more shots - many of those shooters with ported barrels.

I don’t think shotguns have nearly the same blast as an aggressively ported rifle. Pressure isn’t nearly the same if I recall.

It is definitely less as the shooter, but it’s not nothing.

Maybe shooting sports selects for those who don’t get headaches. One reason I stopped playing matches was because of the headaches. It made it a little less fun.

I love NRL Hunter matches cause you aren’t near other shooters cause the stages are blind.

 

[roadrunner]

Huh?

Ask any audiologist about it. The concussive forces are transmitted through your facial bone structure and into the inner ear.

Jason, if you have to ask "huh" you have no idea what it means by a vector analysis. The compressed airwave has both magnitude and direction.

Also, the concussive "forces" are distributed throughout tue facial structure, neck, head, shoulders, etc. It is NOT pointed only at the zygomatic arch and transferred the inner ear. A fair amount will also be absorbed and dissipated in the soft tissue of the face and skeletal muscles of the face. An audiologist will tell you that as well...

 

[roadrunner]

I don’t think shotguns have nearly the same blast as an aggressively ported rifle. Pressure isn’t nearly the same if I recall.

It is definitely less as the shooter, but it’s not nothing.

Maybe shooting sports selects for those who don’t get headaches. One reason I stopped playing matches was because of the headaches. It made it a little less fun.

I love NRL Hunter matches cause you aren’t near other shooters cause the stages are blind.

Actually, some research has been done on the effect that recoil has on sporting clays and skeet.

 

[roadrunner]

90 dBA is for sustained noise, over the course of your 8 hour shift. A rifle produces impulse noise, which has an OSHA exposure limit of 140 dB. So by your own numbers, a suppressed magnum rifle is within OSHA limits for impulse noise. Nonmagnums will be even quieter.

Even if that wasn’t the case, if you have a 338 SBR and it produces 180 dBA unsuppressed and 150dBA suppressed, you’re still damaging your ears a lot less shooting it suppressed. Obviously ear protection should always be used when possible, but to say that a suppressor is pointless if it doesn’t get below 140 dB just isn’t true

Merely stating the effect sound has on your hearing. Nowhere did I ever say the two are comparable. Impluse waves also have a different frequency, travel speed, and shape often dissipating quickly.

The impluse from the crack of a rifle emits radially, not as thin slice on a horizontal plane directed at you.

The part about it being pointless is the threshold of pain is the threshold of pain. Regardless. To say 140 dBA is acceptable because it's suppressed as opposed to wearing "ear pro" that reduces it to the same level is nonsensical at best.

 

[roadrunner]

People need to realize that the effects of concussion is a jarring action. Period. Doesn't matter if it's from recoil, head butting on the football field, or an impluse wave from compressed air (yes, sound is merely compressed air).

 

[pirogue]

People with a bias will always be able to convince themselves that suppressors are pointless. I have never met anyone with suppressor who feels they are pointless.

Yep, just a bad trait of human nature, like the Yeti coolers and Swarovski Optics syndrome; if you can’t afford it, you bash it.

 

[dlskinner762]

I’ve been hunting w suppressors for well over 10 years.

They still produce noise but it’s a noise that deer don’t necessarily associate with danger.

I prefer it as I suffer hearing damage and don’t choose to make it worse unnecessarily.

Furthermore.. it’s just the polite thing to do!

 

[Jason Snyder]

Jason, if you have to ask "huh" you have no idea what it means by a vector analysis. The compressed airwave has both magnitude and direction.

Also, the concussive "forces" are distributed throughout tue facial structure, neck, head, shoulders, etc. It is NOT pointed only at the zygomatic arch and transferred the inner ear. A fair amount will also be absorbed and dissipated in the soft tissue of the face and skeletal muscles of the face. An audiologist will tell you that as well...

My “huh?” was in reference to “killing you quicker than Covid”.

I understand vectors, and I also understand the forces will dissipate across the face and not be centralized to the ear.

It’s America. Everyone should use a suppressor, or don’t. I’m going to dedicate my time to espousing the dangers of playing on the freeway, which no one in this thread has discussed yet.

 

[Ozarkansas]

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The impluse from the crack of a rifle emits radially, not as thin slice on a horizontal plane directed at you.

The part about it being pointless is the threshold of pain is the threshold of pain. Regardless. To say 140 dBA is acceptable because it's suppressed as opposed to wearing "ear pro" that reduces it to the same level is nonsensical at best.

Suppressors CAN get below the threshold for impulse noise, that was my point. Even the example you used of a 130 dB magnum was under it. Your 90 dBA noise limit is specifically for an 8 hour exposure, you can go louder than that for shorter durations of time without hearing loss.

This is the first I’m hearing about impulse noise traveling faster than steady state noise, but yes it’s true it can have different frequencies (although the dB(A) weighting somewhat accounts for that) and obviously that impulse noises dissipate faster

unsuppressed rifles produce dangerous decibel levels AT the ear, how it radiates out isn’t relevant to that measurement. Similarly, there’s lots of suppressor tests taken at the ear that are below 140 and therefore safe.

 

[Stalker69]

Where did he say that they don’t need ear pro? Of course you should.

I teach people to shoot as part of my job and it is inarguably easier to teach someone to shoot a suppressed rifle vs and non suppressed. The muzzle blast affects novice shooters and without it they enjoy it much more as a whole.

Makes you wonder how all of us from the time firearms were invented until just very recently( what millions, billions of people) ever started enjoying shooting guns. I know I enjoyed the he'll out it when I was 6 and shot my first one. And still do to this day. My kids were before suppressors also, they loved since they started also. I really think kids would enjoy it either way, never met one that hasn't. Society is for sure getting softer, and it is what it is. Just enjoy it. Electric cars are quiter, now days also. But I ain't buying into that either. Wait until there's electric Harleys.

 

[hereinaz]

Actually, some research has been done on the effect that recoil has on sporting clays and skeet.

Interesting. I have never shot shotguns at a volume to really know.

On a waterfowl trip, I think as surprised to be one of the only guys with hearing protection. It was in the ear electronic hearing so I could talk and listen. I don’t know why people do that to themselves.

 

[hereinaz]

Makes you wonder how all of us from the time firearms were invented until just very recently( what millions, billions of people) ever started enjoying shooting guns. I know I enjoyed the he'll out it when I was 6 and shot my first one. And still do to this day. My kids were before suppressors also, they loved since they started also. I really think kids would enjoy it either way, never met one that hasn't. Society is for sure getting softer, and it is what it is. Just enjoy it.

Agreed. Shoot and enjoy it.

 

[KurtR]

Makes you wonder how all of us from the time firearms were invented until just very recently( what millions, billions of people) ever started enjoying shooting guns. I know I enjoyed the he'll out it when I was 6 and shot my first one. And still do to this day. My kids were before suppressors also, they loved since they started also. I really think kids would enjoy it either way, never met one that hasn't. Society is for sure getting softer, and it is what it is. Just enjoy it. Electric cars are quiter, now days also. But I ain't buying into that either. Wait until there's electric Harleys.

Soft people that drive cars I mean the horse got you where you need to be….. Air conditioning and forced air heat are for weaklings . Use wood or just open your windows. Soft people ruining this whole world.

 

[Jason Snyder]

I’m so soft i prefer wet wipes over toilet paper.

 

[Stalker69]

Some body needs to invent electric guns ! No gun powder no recoil. No noise to complain about, no excuses for flinching ( yea right). No hearing protection needed. Maybe get government funding under the new green deal. Even little girls ( yea i know) could shoot them, without fear.

 

[Jason Snyder]

Just don’t play on the freeway.