What is your effective range?

[Lawnboi]

I would say it is ability related based on wind conditions occurring across various terrains features. I live out west and have a rifle range setup on some property in southern Colorado. While I have some very accurate long range rifles I am not a dedicated long range shooter, just a hunter who loves to shoot. I decided a few years ago to place a single steel plate at about 800 yards just to test my ability to hit that plate on my first cold bore shot each time I went to the range. I would range the plate, check my wind meter, make my wind call adjustments and shoot one shot and one shot only until the next time. The target was across a couple draws with accurate rifles, however after about a year of doing this I never once hit that dang little plate on the first shot. Always close, but it seems there were always multiple wind directions and patterns between me and the target. Since then I have moved my little plate into what I now would call my effective animal hunting range on a fairly calm days of 600 yards or less, however it is that dang wind that still can cause me to miss from time to time in the 500-600 yard range which I must consider when hunting live animals. I have no such limits on shooting rocks or steel just for fun.

I think if more people did this and were honest you would hear a lot of different answers.

I watch guys “good to 500” wiff 2moa targets “all day”

Effective range is a moving number for me.

 

[Stalker69]

I would say it is ability related based on wind conditions occurring across various terrains features. I live out west and have a rifle range setup on some property in southern Colorado. While I have some very accurate long range rifles I am not a dedicated long range shooter, just a hunter who loves to shoot. I decided a few years ago to place a single steel plate at about 800 yards just to test my ability to hit that plate on my first cold bore shot each time I went to the range. I would range the plate, check my wind meter, make my wind call adjustments and shoot one shot and one shot only until the next time. The target was across a couple draws with accurate rifles, however after about a year of doing this I never once hit that dang little plate on the first shot. Always close, but it seems there were always multiple wind directions and patterns between me and the target. Since then I have moved my little plate into what I now would call my effective animal hunting range on a fairly calm days of 600 yards or less, however it is that dang wind that still can cause me to miss from time to time in the 500-600 yard range which I must consider when hunting live animals. I have no such limits on shooting rocks or steel just for fun.

Yes I believe most people are very lucky to connect on their first shot, when shooting extended ranges. I have been with guys that claim to make 800-1000 yards shots regularly. But I have only seen first shot hits by them a couple times. Most I would say it’s on the 3-6 shot. Then they post videos of them making the shot, but never ever say how many they missed. Kind of like gambling, they only tell you their winnings, never how much they lost.

 

[Formidilosus]

Curious to know how far people practice shooting and what they would consider there effective range is for a big game animal. Is your limit equipment related or ability related?

What is “effective” to you?

 

[I hunt_dm3]

What is “effective” to you?

As you know, it’s very subjective, which is why I posed the question. For me it is shooting moa, first shot on a cold bore in known conditions. Follow up shots are great, but I don’t want to rely on them. Cross canyon, strong or gusty winds and my max number drops drastically. While I like practicing in adverse conditions, I’m not willing to risk making a bad shot. That is also based on my confidence in a setup and how much I practice leading up to the hunt.

I wanted to see if there was a correlation to how far someone routinely practiced shooting and what they felt comfortable shooting at an animal.

 

[Formidilosus]

As you know, it’s very subjective, which is why I posed the question. For me it is shooting moa, first shot on a cold bore in known conditions. Follow up shots are great, but I don’t want to rely on them. Cross canyon, strong or gusty winds and my max number drops drastically. While I like practicing in adverse conditions, I’m not willing to risk making a bad shot. That is also based on my confidence in a setup and how much I practice leading up to the hunt.

I wanted to see if there was a correlation to how far someone routinely practiced shooting and what they felt comfortable shooting at an animal.

I think “effective” and how far someone practices and hunts are two different questions. For you, you say “shooting moa” is effective, however a deer’s vitals are way bigger than MOA out to even quite long ranges. Effective can be twelve moa at 100 yards. Really for hunting, it’s what probability is someone willing to accept for a first round vital hit? What about a second round vital hit?

People all the time say that someone should be able to put four out of five arrows in a target (usually pie plate) before shooting at that range with a bow. That’s 80% hit rate. Are people ok with having a 20% miss/wound rate on animals? If not, what is someone’s acceptable miss/hit rate?

 

[Ucsdryder]

I think “effective” and how far someone practices and hunts are two different questions. For you, you say “shooting moa” is effective, however a deer’s vitals are way bigger than MOA out to even quite long ranges. Effective can be twelve moa at 100 yards. Really for hunting, it’s what probability is someone willing to accept for a first round vital hit? What about a second round vital hit?

People all the time say that someone should be able to put four out of five arrows in a target (usually pie plate) before shooting at that range with a bow. That’s 80% hit rate. Are people ok with having a 20% miss/wound rate on animals? If not, what is someone’s acceptable miss/hit rate?

Who says that? Who’s “people”?

 

[I hunt_dm3]

People all the time say that someone should be able to put four out of five arrows in a target (usually pie plate) before shooting at that range with a bow. That’s 80% hit rate. Are people ok with having a 20% miss/wound rate on animals? If not, what is someone’s acceptable miss/hit rate?

It has to be 100% of the time in my opinion. If it’s not, your past your effective range. I hunt deer and elk so I am okay with a 8” vital zone or moa at 800 yards. That’s almost half of an elks vitals, and I’m okay with that because I have confidence I can hit that zone 10 out of 10 times if I know my conditions.

 

[Formidilosus]

Who says that? Who’s “people”?

Are you going to be combative in every response now?

That capability (4/5 on a pie plate) and/or similar has been written about and stated for the entire time I have been hunting. I didn’t say that I agree with it, or that it is correct. But it is a common standard.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

Are you going to be combative in every response now?

That capability (4/5 on a pie plate) and/or similar has been written about and stated for the entire time I have been hunting. I didn’t say that I agree with it, or that it is correct. But it is a common standard.

Can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard that said, for both archery and rifle.

 

[Formidilosus]

It has to be 100% of the time in my opinion.

The problem is that there is no 100%. Words mean things, and while potentially getting into semantics- 100% literally means 100%. And if you have ever missed an animal, than you took a shot that wasn’t 100%.

If I said I wouldn’t shoot unless I was 100% certain of hitting vitals, I literally could not shoot a broadside deer at 50 yards.

 

[elkguide]

My effective range is a shot at an animal that I feel confident that when I pull the trigger, something is going to fall over. I have passed shots at animals that were less than 100 yards and have taken a deer at 787 yards. The cow elk that I took this year was at 440 yards when I shot and I had her at 360 but hesitated because she was walking and quartering away.

I wish that I could say that I have never had an animal get away. I am still haunted by the view in my scope of a very large whitetail spinning around just as the trigger broke and seeing the bullet take his off side shoulder and not hit any vitals and he was at 300 yards, broadside, until he moved. (Neighbor kid finished him the next day so I got to see where exactly my bullet hit)

I am very fortunate to have a 500 yard range just outside my basement/reloading room door. I don't shoot like Form, (wish that I had the time and money or that I had a job shooting) but I do shoot many thousand rounds a year. (Shot 57 rounds today and only stopped because it was 20* and the wind picked up to over 25mph.)

So to answer your question on effective range again, my answer is, "it depends."

 

[Ucsdryder]

Are you going to be combative in every response now?

That capability (4/5 on a pie plate) and/or similar has been written about and stated for the entire time I have been hunting. I didn’t say that I agree with it, or that it is correct. But it is a common standard.

How is that combative? Sounds like you’re being defensive? I’ve never heard of that saying and it just seems crazy to me. I think we agree on that. You asked for clarification on “what’s effective”. I asked for clarification on who said 80% is the standard. Not sure why that’s not a valid question?


For practice I would never call 80% good enough. In most practice situations the shooter is in a much more ideal situation than he would be shooting at a wild animal. So that 80% is surely going to drop significantly. Not to mention that if you’re first hit doesn’t usually connect the next 4 hitting don’t do much good!

Similar to rifle, I would shoot regularly out to 100-120 yards with my bow which made the closer shots “automatic”.

 

[Formidilosus]

How is that combative? Sounds like you’re being defensive? I’ve never heard of that saying. You asked for clarification on “what’s effective”. I asked for clarification on who said 80% is the standard. Not sure why that’s not a valid question?

Because it is so common, that it took about 15 seconds to find 50’ish examples of that exact statement, or similar with a Google search. I have taken Hunter safety in three states, and all three used that standard. It’s in almost every book on archery hunting I have ever read. So unless you are relatively new to hunting/bow hunting, I can not really see how you haven’t heard or read that before. Being, that you have interacted how you have, reading it as you wrote, it seemed as a continuation of your behavior.


Apologies if misread.

For practice I would never call 80% good enough. In most practice situations the shooter is in a much more ideal situation than he would be shooting at a wild animal. So that 80% is surely going to drop significantly.

So what is acceptable hit rate to you? And how do you quantify it in the field?

 

[Ucsdryder]

Because it is so common, that it took about 15 seconds to find 50’ish examples of that exact statement, or similar with a Google search. I have taken Hunter safety in three states, and all three used that standard. It’s in almost every book on archery hunting I have ever read. So unless you are relatively new to hunting/bow hunting, I can not really see how you haven’t heard or read that before. Being, that you have interacted how you have, reading it as you wrote, it seemed as a continuation of your behavior.


Apologies if misread.





So what is acceptable hit rate to you? And how do you quantify it in the field?

Honestly, if you’re at the range you better have a hit rate approaching 100% because in the field the situation will NEVER be as good as sitting at the range punching paper. Hard to say putting an actual number on MER. So much to consider when shooting long range I don’t know if I can give a number. I shot my antelope at 834 and my bull at 575. Both shots were ideal conditions, I mean absolutely perfect and both bullets were right at POA. Add in some wind and all bets are off…at least for me.

 

[I hunt_dm3]

The problem is that there is no 100%. Words mean things, and while potentially getting into semantics- 100% literally means 100%. And if you have ever missed an animal, than you took a shot that wasn’t 100%.

If I said I wouldn’t shoot unless I was 100% certain of hitting vitals, I literally could not shoot a broadside deer at 50 yards.

I’ve been fortunate to have only missed one time on my first shot, I have passed on plenty of shots and missed follow up shots. For reference, I’ve taken 22 deer and elk, longest of 630 yards. 100% is an unrealistic number to be held to, so I really don’t know. What do you think that number should be?

 

[Formidilosus]

Honestly, if you’re at the range you better have a hit rate approaching 100% because in the field the situation will NEVER be as good as sitting at the range punching paper. Hard to say putting an actual number on MER.

I’ve been fortunate to have only missed one time on my first shot, I have passed on plenty of shots and missed follow up shots. For reference, I’ve taken 22 deer and elk, longest of 630 yards. 100% is an unrealistic number to be held to, so I really don’t know. What do you think that number should be?

I don’t know what it should be. I think that is on each person and it is more than a hit percentage. It can’t be 100% as there is no such thing. If someone says it’s 95%- is that 95% first round kills? What about 2nd or third? Does that percentage include the ability to quickly make follow up corrections? The ability to track? Etc.

The deal is that hit rates past 200-300’ish yards are lower than most will admit/think if mountainous conditions and wind are present, and especially with any time constraint. Trained, practiced shooters that practice in those conditions will be able to call wind over 400 yards within 3-4 mph day in and day out.
This has been what I have seen with hundreds of shooters and tens of thousands of rounds practicing in unknown conditions in the mountains- with winds between 5-10 MPH over broken terrain, trained shooters can call it within 4mph 90% of the time. That causes quite a few misses past 400 yards, and a bunch of those will be high or low misses due to up and down drafts.



Me personally, my judgment is based on having an extremely high probability of standing over animal at the end- high probability being 95+ percent. That doesn’t necessarily mean a 95% probability of first round hit, it means that if I shoot at an animal, I have a better than 95% chance of recovering that animal. There have been animals that I my first round hit probability would have been over 90%that I did not shoot because if it was not a vital hit, the probability of recovery would have been 50/50 at best. Conversely, there have been shots I have taken that my first round hit was 70’ish percent, but the odd of a second shot being lethal and the circumstances meant that recovery was as close to 100% as possible.

 

[Formidilosus]

More specific to the point is- how does someone know what their hit probability is if they aren’t shooting in mountainous terrain with variable winds? How does someone know what a shot probability will be if they are only shooting a hundred rounds a year?

 

[ZAK13]

I only have access to a 200yd range, but have taken a few game species out past 350 yards. I always try to get as close as I can, it's part of the excitement for me. I also bow hunt and practice out to 60 yards, but 40 yards is my limit while hunting, furthest I've taken game with the bow is 35 yards.

 

[Laramie]

I practice out to 1000. Self imposed limit in the field, with good conditions, is 500. Just too many things to go wrong beyond that for my comfort level.

Even if you shoot perfect at 1000 you are giving WKRs too much time to take your BOL when he goes out of sight.

 

[Stalker69]

I think “effective” and how far someone practices and hunts are two different questions. For you, you say “shooting moa” is effective, however a deer’s vitals are way bigger than MOA out to even quite long ranges. Effective can be twelve moa at 100 yards. Really for hunting, it’s what probability is someone willing to accept for a first round vital hit? What about a second round vital hit?

People all the time say that someone should be able to put four out of five arrows in a target (usually pie plate) before shooting at that range with a bow. That’s 80% hit rate. Are people ok with having a 20% miss/wound rate on animals? If not, what is someone’s acceptable miss/hit rate?

I have heard that sense I first started shooting archery, about 40 years ago. And seems like it’s still brought up all the time.