What does it take to kill a grizzly?

[ElPollo]

What is your experience level to be such a expert? How many grizzly, brown bears , mountain sheep, moose, elk , caribou, Cape buffalo, leopards have you killed, hunting on your own or with a guide? How many career brown bear and grizzly guides have you hunted with to make the above statements? How many guided hunts have you been on, many of the above game animals listed require a guide unless you are a resident. How many career Rocky Mtn states biologists, game managers, wardens call you a friend and that you have hunted with?

I’m kind of enjoying your indignant answers here. Where exactly do wildlife biologists, or game managers, wardens, or guides get training on ballistics? Is this OJT? Is there coursework involved? How many animals do you think your average wildlife biologist or guide kills per year. Is the number of animals killed the measure of someone’s ballistic knowledge? Please enlighten us?

 

[MtnW]

I’m kind of enjoying your indignant answers here. Where exactly do wildlife biologists, or game managers, wardens, or guides get training on ballistics? Is this OJT? Is there coursework involved? How many animals do you think your average wildlife biologist or guide kills per year. Is the number of animals killed the measure of someone’s ballistic knowledge? Please enlighten us?

Don’t know where you grew up ,but it sure doesn’t sound like the Rocky Mtn West where shooting guns is part of your life experience from age 5. Many of these wildlife professionals you are insulting are 3rd generation Montana, Wyoming , Idaho, Washington, B.C., Alberta, AK natives who have more gun,hunting,and ballistics experiences than the internet keyboard experts hat shoot only paper. It’s called in the FIELD EXPERIENCE, and actual hunting experience.
Your comment about “guides” also shows your inexperience too! Many guides have been involved in 100’s if not close to 300+ grizzly/brown bear kills in their lifetime careers . Coursework? REALLY, Coursework on killing grizzly bears?? You live in a different world than I do thank God.

 

[ElPollo]

Don’t know where you grew up ,but it sure doesn’t sound like the Rocky Mtn West where shooting guns is part of your life experience from age 5. Many of these wildlife professionals you are insulting are 3rd generation Montana, Wyoming , Idaho, Washington, B.C., Alberta, AK natives who have more gun,hunting,and ballistics experiences than the internet keyboard experts hat shoot only paper. It’s called in the FIELD EXPERIENCE, and actual hunting experience.
Your comment about “guides” also shows your inexperience too! Many guides have been involved in 100’s if not close to 300+ grizzly/brown bear kills in their lifetime careers . Coursework? REALLY, Coursework on killing grizzly bears?? You live in a different world than I do thank God.

First, where exactly did I insult wildlife professionals? Please go back and read my post again and quote it directly.

Second, why do you think doing something that same way over and over again automatically makes you smarter? You don’t learn by doing if you don’t take time to collect information from what you did, and critically evaluate that information and adjust what you do base on that information. Learning is about questioning, experimenting, and sharing what you’ve learned. I’d don’t see any evidence that you are doing any of that. Instead you appear to be complaining about someone else doing that and casting doubt on their information without providing any of your own.

But perhaps I’m wrong. What is your experience? Are you a biologist or a guide? What’s your actual grizzly body count? How many rounds do you shoot per year in practice and how many animals do you kill and see killed in an average year? What information and observations do you take from that vast experience? And please share with us your knowledge of ballistics and how bullets actually wound and kill. Provide the evidence, not just things you think or feel. If you don’t have evidence about things you think or feel, by all means, go forth and get it and tell us what you find. We will wait patiently.

And by the way, I am a wildlife biologist and have made my living doing that continuously for over 30 years.

 

[Thegman]

Maybe there's a couple of things being conflated here.

Many big game guides have lots of experience on kills, but generally with rifles in a fairly limited range, say typically from 7mm to 375. They know those work, and may know fairly well how well they work.

Now, if you asked the same guides about using a 6mm or .224 bullet on an elk, moose, grizzly, etc, they'd very likely reply "WTF, are you kidding?". Not because they have used these and seen them fail, but because they've never used them and have no knowledge about using them on the same.

I think that's essentially what is being said. Knowing about one set of things does not necessarily impart knowledge about another set of things one has never used, nor seen used.

 

[MtnW]

What I find B.S. is the lack of ANY experience by the so called internet hunting forum experts who are relying on “course work” and have never even been on a grizzly/brown bear hunt, let alone killed one, telling the uninformed how to go about hunting the great bears. It’s comical . And ELPOLLO I take it you are a “bird” (wildlife biologist) not a Ursidae or Ungulate biologist. And that you, like Formidilusus have never been on a grizzly/brown bear hunt in your life. And that you like formidilosus have little to zero guided big game hunting experience with a master guide where a guide is required to hunt ? And that you like Formidilusus have maybe one or two Rocky Mtn Western hunts? And you have no experience in / Alaska/ Yukon/BC/NWT where the grizzly brown bears live. But you do have “course work” thus you guys are experts but you have zero real life experiences ?? Now I get it.

 

[Formidilosus]

What is your experience level to be such a expert?

Expert? Please quote where I have ever made that statement.

How many grizzly, brown bears , mountain sheep, moose, elk , caribou, Cape buffalo, leopards have you killed, hunting on your own or with a guide?

What do mountain sheep, moose, elk caribou, Cape buffalo, and leopards have to do with what it takes to kill a bear? How does hunting with a guide make one more knowledgeable?

How many career brown bear and grizzly guides have you hunted with to make the above statements?

What statement exactly are you referring to?

How many guided hunts have you been on,

How does how many guided hunts I’ve been on change anything that was stated?

many of the above game animals listed require a guide unless you are a resident. How many career Rocky Mtn states biologists, game managers, wardens call you a friend and that you have hunted with?

If a Rocky Mountain state’s biologist, game manager or warden calls me a friend, that means that what I wrote is true? And if they don’t- it means what I wrote isn’t?


Fallacy much?

 

[Formidilosus]

What I find B.S. is the lack of ANY experience by the so called internet hunting forum experts who are relying on “course work”

How did you come to that conclusion?

and have never even been on a grizzly/brown bear hunt, let alone killed one, telling the uninformed how to go about hunting the great bears. It’s comical .

Can you quote exactly where I or anyone stated “how to hunt the great bears”?

And ELPOLLO I take it you are a “bird” (wildlife biologist) not a Ursidae or Ungulate biologist.

Because you don’t like what he wrote, you assume he’s a bird biologist? And somehow you believe that is relevant to what is being discussed?

And that you, like Formidilusus have never been on a grizzly/brown bear hunt in your life.

How does going or not going in a guided grizzly hunt have anything to do with whether wildlife officers have education, and/or deep knowledge about terminal ballistics and shooting, or shooting skill?
Or whether Guides go through training or education on ballistics, or are generally shooters themselves, and how much technical knowledge they have about guns in general?

And that you like formidilosus have little to zero guided big game hunting experience with a master guide where a guide is required to hunt ?

Again, how does that have anything to do with what is written? And, what is your fixation on hunting with a guide?

And that you like Formidilusus have maybe one or two Rocky Mtn Western hunts?

I’m sure that you have more experience in Rocky Mountain western hunts.
How does that have anything I do with whether wildlife officers, guides, etc have technical understanding in general about terminal ballistics or high level shooting skill?

And you have no experience in / Alaska/ Yukon/BC/NWT where the grizzly brown bears live.

How did you come to that conclusion?

But you do have “course work” thus you guys are experts but you have zero real life experiences ?? Now I get it.

Again, how did you come to this conclusion?

 

[MtnW]

Not sure why you consider yourself a authority on so many subjects related to hunting. Because if one reads your reply’s in your posts it is Blatantly obvious you have done very little big game hunting,you have limited or no knowledge of various states/province’s available game and hunting seasons or requirements, your lengthy elk hunting story has more drama combined in your one hunt than my last 20 elk hunts combined, for trying to be a hunting forum influencer/internet expert you have only 1 or 2 photos of your big game hunts , even after several attempts trying to explain guided hunts to you , you are unable to grasp the concept that certain animals can only be hunted with a licensed guide in many states and province’s , since you can only be a resident of ONE STATE, and Canada is a all together different program, you give advice on brown bear and grizzly hunting but where are your pics of the ears you killed? I think you are as El Pollo said full of “course work” not real life hunting experiences. It’s pretty clear to me you are rather young,with little actual experience. Others can form their own opinions. I am just refuting much of what you proclaim to be, I am not out to be a professional influencer or make 3000 posts. .I have adventure traveled and hunted my entire life, my passion is spending time in the Yukon . I respond to these hunting forums when I disagree with the hunting forum influencers Just calling out what I consider from my hunting and life experiences to be a large amount of unsubstantiated statements from you. I think you are over your skis and your real experiences are a fraction of what you claim to be.