What do you consider a "chip shot"

[ID_Matt]

1000 yards and under.

Sarcasm?

 

[Macintosh]

For everyone saying 400+ yards is a “chip shot”, how many shots on animals have you taken at 400 plus yards, and how many were first round hits in the chest?

I did, and the answer is 1 out of 1. The grass wasnt even moving, I had 20 minutes (or more) to make it, and had a rest as solid as any shooting bench. But the big caveat—which I tried to make clear, hopefully that came across—apart from time, is conditions. Im assuming ultra-friendly conditions. Im actually very conservative on this. My ability goes way downhill as conditions start getting even moderate. Imo the question is unanswerable until you define position, time, conditions, etc. hunting in the brush at home a 50 yard shot isnt always chip shot, but I dont think that was the question. Maybe the better answer is “there’s no such thing as a chip shot, only favorable or unfavorable conditions”??

 

[jonpall]

I've missed enough shots at various distances in various conditions that I'm hesitant to say any number.

 

[S.Clancy]

For everyone saying 400+ yards is a “chip shot”, how many shots on animals have you taken at 400 plus yards, and how many were first round hits in the chest?

That's what I am saying. I felt like I was pushing it using the max point blank of my rifle....

 

[hereinaz]

For everyone saying 400+ yards is a “chip shot”, how many shots on animals have you taken at 400 plus yards, and how many were first round hits in the chest?

I understand the skepticism, it’s not easy. My comments above explain my process to get the confidence.

I am 4 for 5, but none were rushed. Distance gives time and opportunity as they say.

Hit the one coues deer back a little but he got a second shot that ended him. I was shooting off a tripod on a side hill across a canyon and recoil was hard to manage.

I went down to a .25 cal 133 for less recoil after that cause the 180 VLD was way too much bullet even past 500 yards.

 

[parshal]

Here's a test for everyone. Do it and be honest with yourself and the results.

Steel targets at 200 and 300 yards. Targets are 14" wide/12" tall. Three shots at each target starting at 200. No prone at 200. You can use an upright post or any other position you'd like including tripod. Just no prone. 300 yard target can be prone. Do it all under six minutes. You miss, you're out.

Colorado CPW uses this to weed out shooters for their elk cull in the Sand Dunes. Passing rate is ~15% and every single person I've mentioned this test to cannot believe the passing rate is so low. I've shown a few folks how to shoot positionally like you would at an NRL Hunter match and every one of them believes the above test is a cake-walk. I'd guarantee each of those would fail the above test.

 

[Divide93]

When I was an avid rifle hunter , it was anything inside of 100, 30/30, iron sights!

 

[Lawnboi]

Honestly 300 is my level of near 100% certainty and beyond that there are too many factors to really say.

I also shoot PRS and NRL, and I also watch the a lot of guys biff shots even as close as noted above, alot. Heck I miss some of them too.

Shooting under pressure is a real thing too. If you’re not practicing under pressure, in situations not dictated by yourself, you really havnt got an idea on certainty, just my opinion. Knowing what you and your rifle is capable of in a comfortable prone position is only the beginning.

And in regards to people being comfortable because they shot rocks, really rocks are the absolute worst practice medium you can use. I watch guys shoot, along with myself with rifles with low recoil at targets with berms, and many times the shooter really has no clue, it’s also really easy to mis judge. Actually spotting and pin pointing your shot, and not just a dust cloud after a chaotic event of recoil and bang is difficult and just takes a lot of spotting. Add in lightweight guns, higher recoil, vegetation annd topography and there are not many people that are as capable as they think they are. I don’t mean this to ruffle feathers, just what I have observed.

And then sometimes it’s better to be lucky.

I’m still learning every time I pull my rifle out.

 

[Formidilosus]

I did, and the answer is 1 out of 1. The grass wasnt even moving, I had 20 minutes (or more) to make it, and had a rest as solid as any shooting bench. But the big caveat—which I tried to make clear, hopefully that came across—apart from time, is conditions. Im assuming ultra-friendly conditions. Im actually very conservative on this. My ability goes way downhill as conditions start getting even moderate. Imo the question is unanswerable until you define position, time, conditions, etc. hunting in the brush at home a 50 yard shot isnt always chip shot, but I dont think that was the question.

Thank you- but that’s my point. 400 yards on animals is not what I would consider a “chip shot”, and my experience is when people say it is- they don’t have very much experience killing animals at 400+ yards. Though suppose it depends on someone’s definition of what a “chip shot” is.
The Cold Bire challenge on here revealed to any watching it- that a whole lot of “600 yards is a chip shot” believers missed once or both times at sub 500 yards on a 10” target.

Maybe the better answer is “there’s no such thing as a chip shot, only favorable or unfavorable conditions”??

Believing that any shot is a chip shot or an easy shot is often what leads to poor outcomes, because it means we aren’t giving the shot the attention it deserves. The last animal I killed was at 782 yards, the one before that was 1,106 yards, the one before at around 100 yards- I did not think any of them were chip shots. It’s just probabilities based on shooter, environment, and animal.

 

[Formidilosus]

I understand the skepticism, it’s not easy. My comments above explain my process to get the confidence.

Not really skepticism, but observation.

I am 4 for 5, but none were rushed. Distance gives time and opportunity as they say.

So for you, an 80% first round hit rate means “chip shot”?

 

[Dexter Grayson]

I’m comfortable shooting to 500, but 100 and in is what I consider a chip shot. Lots of variables though.

 

[ianpadron]

For everyone saying 400+ yards is a “chip shot”, how many shots on animals have you taken at 400 plus yards, and how many were first round hits in the chest?

Good question for sure. I'll share my story:

2 seasons ago I killed a buck at 425 yards and it wasn't as pretty as I thought it would be. I had been banging away at the same 6" paint spot on a rock at 550 yards all summer long and thought I was the second coming of Carlos Hathcock.

Boy was I wrong. Shivering from sitting still on the glassing knob all morning, amped to see 2 big bucks sneaking through a burn, no possible way to get level on my pack. Shooting downhill, my torso above the rifle but body below...no bueno. First shot broke and the deer stumbled, but I had hit him basically mid body/liver, a good 4" behind where I was holding in the gap he presented between trees.

He required a follow-up shot and that bothered me more than I would have thought, and was the impetus for going back to the drawing board on my approach to shooting centerfire rifles.

I put away my 270 WSM and started shooting a .243, .308, and 6.5 CM, all in identical configurations...basically carried them on every single hike/scouting trip last year to blast rocks in a variety of situations/environments. I went from THINKING I could kill any deer out to 600 to KNOWING I could kill any deer out to 500 in about a year's time of consistent practice...most of which guided by the principles you share on this forum.

A lighter recoiling rifle with tuned trigger at 1.5 pounds, reliable aiming device (duo of 3-9 SWFAs and a 6x on the .243) that is repeatable and durable, and practicing out way past where I was currently comfortable, to learn what wind actually does to projectiles at different ranges.

Fast forward to this past season, which was my first one as a "born again" shooter and I finally had the opportunity to test the new skills on a critter instead of a rock. A big old buck held up at 525 yards between 2 trees in a burn with a shot window about 10" wide. No wind, slightly shitty angled but still stable prone position. Didn't even think about it. Simply ran the play...bang flop courtesy of a 147 grain ELDM. I knew that deer was dead the second I spotted him, no "man, I hope I kill him" thoughts, which to me was a huge psychological shift. Certainly the polar opposite of the gong show at 425 yards a couple years earlier, and about as much of an "ah-hah" moment as you can imagine.

Will continue to practice and hone the craft, and appreciate learning tips from more skilled shooters on how to continually progress.

 

[ianpadron]

Honestly 300 is my level of near 100% certainty and beyond that there are too many factors to really say.

I also shoot PRS and NRL, and I also watch the a lot of guys biff shots even as close as noted above, alot. Heck I miss some of them too.

Shooting under pressure is a real thing too. If you’re not practicing under pressure, in situations not dictated by yourself, you really havnt got an idea on certainty, just my opinion. Knowing what you and your rifle is capable of in a comfortable prone position is only the beginning.

And in regards to people being comfortable because they shot rocks, really rocks are the absolute worst practice medium you can use. I watch guys shoot, along with myself with rifles with low recoil at targets with berms, and many times the shooter really has no clue, it’s also really easy to mis judge. Actually spotting and pin pointing your shot, and not just a dust cloud after a chaotic event of recoil and bang is difficult and just takes a lot of spotting. Add in lightweight guns, higher recoil, vegetation annd topography and there are not many people that are as capable as they think they are. I don’t mean this to ruffle feathers, just what I have observed.

And then sometimes it’s better to be lucky.

I’m still learning every time I pull my rifle out.

"still learning" really is what it's all about, I think that's what I like most about shooting, impossible to ever be perfect and there will always be guys to learn from who are much better.

As for rocks, my main shooting/hunting partner and I always have a phoneskope set-up to watch replays. Definitely valuable for judging exact locations of hits, but also a really good tool for watching the trajectory of a bullet. We slap that thing on some 10x42 binos on a tripod and man do you learn a lot about trajectory watching a vapor trail.

 

[TaperPin]

it’s not easy.

Exactly! The devil is in the details. *chuckle*

I think of western mule deer as being conveniently sized for shooting out to 500 without dialing. Measure the chest depth anyway you want, some are barrel chested and some look skinny, but the quite simple and easy to remember holds for a 300 yard zero line up well. These holds haven’t changed since I was 13 shooting a 270 - if anyone in the past 40 years came up with a better system I’d gladly use it.

Granted, on antelope the smaller body makes 500 a stretch and the holds have to be adjusted a little, but many Wyoming junior high school kids take their first big game at 400 or 450. My wife took her first at 450.



This table is for 140gr. 6.5 PRC but could be for a 7 mag 160gr. or 100gr. 243.
100 yards 1/4 the way up
200 yards 1/4 the way up
300 yards 0
350 yards 3/4 the way up
400 yards on the back
450 1/4 over the back
500 1/2 over the back

 

[Dos Perros]

So for you, an 80% first round hit rate means “chip shot”?

That's what I was going to get to...folks should correlate "chip shot" to probability of a good hit.

Also, interesting how language can play into this question.

 

[Dos Perros]

I'm not a "long range hunter," whatever that is, but I'd call 150 yards prone a chip shot. Up to 225 yards if conditions were good.

 

[hereinaz]

So for you, an 80% first round hit rate means “chip shot”?

That’s the $64,000 question… what’s a chip shot mean?

80%, I’d say that’s pretty good when the second shot killed the deer. I have seen hunters throwing lead at closer ranges and miss at higher percentages.

I figure, a chip shot is a golf and it’s not a “gimme” so I am going with high a confidence shot. In field conditions I can make much higher than 80%. And, my one “failure” was at 575ish on a coues and I think it was my failure to manage recoil of my 7mm so I evaluated honestly and adjusted to a .25 cal.

Statistically speaking, 4 out of 5 is not really valid to say I am 80%, sometimes crap happens, maybe it was the one that will fall outside of the bell curve. Maybe I shoot 5 more and then I am at 90%.

• Chip shot (idiom), a phrase denoting that an attempted action has a low degree of difficulty

 

[Lawnboi]

"still learning" really is what it's all about, I think that's what I like most about shooting, impossible to ever be perfect and there will always be guys to learn from who are much better.

As for rocks, my main shooting/hunting partner and I always have a phoneskope set-up to watch replays. Definitely valuable for judging exact locations of hits, but also a really good tool for watching the trajectory of a bullet. We slap that thing on some 10x42 binos on a tripod and man do you learn a lot about trajectory watching a vapor trail.

Videoing is a good tool.

 

[ianpadron]

I'm not a "long range hunter," whatever that is, but I'd call 150 yards prone a chip shot. Up to 225 yards if conditions were good.

Well you're a long range hunter by archery standards

 

[Formidilosus]

That's what I was going to get to...folks should correlate "chip shot" to probability of a good hit.

Also, interesting how language can play into this question.

That’s a good graph.