What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[nm.otter]

6.5mm Creedmoor for the win -- anything more just adds unnecessary recoil.

Affordable BTHP target ammo from multiple manufacturers.

 

[Anschutz]

Tikka is expected to announce T3x options in 6mm Creedmoor in a few weeks.

If that's true, sign me up. I'm a huge .243 fan but my current .243 weighs 11lb without rings and a scope (Savage, B&C Medalist, 26" Sendero 1-8 McGowen). I'm at a different point in life than I was 10 years ago when I built that rifle and would prefer not to reload unless I have to (read match rifles). Guess I'll take that .243 8tw Tikka out of my EuroOptic cart.

 

[nm.otter]

Most recently here.

 

[Anschutz]

Most recently this.

Well, it's later this year. If it was just the Ace models, I'd be out. If it's anything past a few months, I'll go .243, burn up the 100 or so pieces of Lapua 243 I have, and buy a 6cm barrel.

 

[nm.otter]

If they're planning to announce at DSC, there will be talk at SHOT.

 

[Big_wals]

As someone new to this site.......

I was already heading towards this trend before I saw all of the chatter. At least kind of.

I was coming to alot of the same conclusions, even without really realizing what I was actually saying lol.

For me, it was the realization that when I shot a deer with a cup and core big expander, the wound/damage was massive, too much really if my shot placement wasn't right, maybe even if it was right. And it didn't matter in a practical sense, whether it was a 95grain ballistic tip from a .243, or a 140grain rem core lokt from my .280.

The result was the same on the first few bulls i shot, with rem core lokts out of a .280 at close range (inside 100yards). massive wound channel, if i hit a shoulder...oh lord, vaporized, carnage etc....Very quick kills.

Anyways...years later i don't own either rifle anymore. I borrow my dad's .25-06 for deer hunting. He has 100grain Barnes TTSX loaded hot and heavy, pretty sure they were running 3300 plus. Testing them out, he wanted to try mono's. Anyways, around 150yds out I shoot a buck broadside, Hit, looks like a decent/good hit, lungs for sure. Deer takes off running, slows down around 200yards away and turns to look back, hit him again....he teeters a bit, but turns and makes another run for it, although clearly slowing down/not long for the world. I give him a 3rd cause he looked like he might make it to a fairly steep, thick, nasty little draw, shoulder hit this time and he dropped.

Sooo....the amateur after shot analysis showed that the first 2 shots were both double lung. Both ultimately fatal shots, but there just wasn't much of a wound channel on either. The deer was dead, just not quick dead. the 3rd shot through the shoulder did more damage. the 2 double lung shots exited, the shoulder one off side hide caught it.

Sooo...I'm thinking about this, and just kinda looking at it like.....man, the "cheap" cup and core bullets really do a number on the deer. almost too good. and these barnes worked, but didn't do much damage. At the time, I just chalked it up to the barnes being made for bigger animals, deep penetration, and really the deer were too small for them.

Move to the elk hunt the same year. I am packing a 7mm rem mag of my fathers, he is packing a 300 win mag. He had decided that he wanted to experiment with Accubonds instead of his tried and trued partitions for elk hunting. He was told the Accubonds would get more penetration. We are dark timber elk hunters, almost never a shot over 100yds, a lot of shots around 50yards.

My dad shot his bull at about 100yards, quartering away. 1 shot, elk bolted, couldn't get another shot off. Elk went around 400yards, he caught up with it there, and put a neck shot into him at around 50yards and that put him down, elk was still moving but heavily laboring. Accubond went through first lung, just caught the second lung, no shoulders or anything. Again, it was a fatal wound. But very underwhelming amount of damage.

2 days later, I get my chance. about 60yards away, big bull for our hunting area ( he was officially measured at 287"). walking broadside, first shot is high, nothing burger, 2 more shots, both in the lungs area, bull is still up, dad yells, shoot him in the neck, I do, bull goes down. Same story really......a bit more wound damage on my bull. (closer range and my speed if i remember right). but nothing "impressive". My dad's conclusion was rather simple. Its not a partition......experiment over...

But I have been thinking about these things critically for a while now (this was all years ago), my conclusions were......Accubonds and mono's definitely penetrate, but they kinda suck (not saying they do, but this was my thought process). The partitions always got the job done on elk, better. But nothing killed an elk like the couple of elk I shot with core lokts. Those suckers were insta toast. I mean, I don't even want to use a cup and core on a deer due because its border line overkill....But I kinda do want to use them on elk, because they killed the best.......And I then got to thinking about that and thinking, I wonder about dropping down in size and using a cup and core, because I hate....HATE....recoil.

Anyways, searching online about those thoughts actually lead me to here. And I found that a whole group of people had much better data then I had, and have come to the same conclusions, or actually have taken what I was thinking much further down the rabbit hole then what I was thinking.

So, I was already heading this way. We vastly over estimate what It takes to cleanly kill an animal, especially an elk. Which has become a mythical animal in some ways.

Its actually kinda funny, I never thought critically about it. I mean an elk is massive compared to a deer. Except for the actual chest cavity really isn't that much bigger. The bones aren't massively bigger.....I had literally seen "cheap" cup and core high expanding/fragmenting bullets dang near blow a elk in half, absolute carnage at close range. I have also seen multiple elk run a long ways with "deep penetrating" bullets. Heck, I was told over and over and over again that you need a big gun, preferably a magnum, shooting a big ass bullet, preferably something tough, cause you gotta drive through the shoulder, it needs to penetrate deep for the quartering shots....ermmmm...I blew the shoulder up, both lungs were absolutely destroyed, and the offside shoulder blew up, bullet against the skin...with a dang core lokts. Then I watch all these other elk get shot over and over with the "tough" bullets from the "real" elk guns and just keep trucking for a ways before finally falling over....Jesus. Honestly I kinda feel dumb. The answers were pretty obvious.

So yeah, I started thinking....Well, I need a long, skinny bullet driven fast enough that's gonna F*ck stuff up for a elk round. I want it to penetrate enough to get to both lungs from all reasonable angles...( which is probably around 14"/15" real world) and cause havoc. And I shoot close range so it doesn't need to be a speed demon.

Searched for those answers...end up here. But man, honestly i feel kinda dumb, or i guess, not very self reflective at the time.

Welcome to Rokslide!

 

[Big_wals]

To me the obvious easy button is a 6.5 creedmor. But everyone has one, and I like to be a bit different. Maybe a 6.5prc.

Yeah, I don’t have a 6.5 for that same reason. But but there’s a reason everyone has one, especially if you’re shooting factory ammo.

 

[streamerfish]

Welcome to Rokslide!

Thanks. Looks like an awesome group and a ton of great information.

 

[TheViking]

Thanks. Looks like an awesome group and a ton of great information.

It’s going to get expensive real fast being a member here

 

[littlebigtine]

MOA rifles saying something like this is about the same as a scope company dismissing the drop-test results.

If they were called .3 Mil rifles it would carry more weight

 

[streamerfish]

Yeah, I don’t have a 6.5 for that same reason. But but there’s a reason everyone has one, especially if you’re shooting factory ammo.

Yeah....I'm gonna be reloading, maybe not initially(sold it all yrs ago). But eventually.
Idk. I gotta pour over useless and pointless data for weeks on end, debating over 100fps of speed vs 1-2ftlbs of recoil, available bullets and components, 1 inch less drop at 300 yards(never shot an animal that far lol) and a bunch of other useless stuff that "form" would shake his head at, convince myself that I should get 4 different calibers.....then end up back at a 6.5 creedmor lol.

 

[streamerfish]

It’s going to get expensive real fast being a member here

LOL...

I'm looking at it in a more positive way. Maybe it will save money in the long run by finding things that just work, instead buying stuff that doesn't and replacing it 6 months later.

 

[Anschutz]

LOL...

I'm looking at it in a more positive way. Maybe it will save money in the long run by finding things that just work, instead buying stuff that doesn't and replacing it 6 months later.

Ain't that the truth. Back when I had disposable income, I'd wheel and deal on guns. Most of them I don't regret, but I could have 3-4 Tikka's (including a T1x) with good glass over mediocre glass on several rifles.

 

[Sizzler]

After a pile of deer this year with 7 different cartridges my least favorite bullet was the 108 eldm in my creedmoor. Shot a total of 5 deer with the 6 creedmoor. 3 with the 108 eldm and 2 with the 103 eldx. One Bang flop at 80 yards(headshot). 1 at 307 yards(right at the diaphragm hit the rear of the lungs) made a 200 yard tail up walk/trot into the woods. I thought I missed, No blood didnt find it right away. 1 at 218 yards ran 100 yards towards me and bedded in the field. Finished with a headshot. After that I realized I probably didnt miss the one at 307. I followed it's tracks in the morning and found it. Not a drop of blood except for 3 drops in its bed.

The first one with the 103 eldx was a doe at 127 yards. Complete pass thru and blood spray out both sides for the 30 ish yards it made. The last one was about 100 yards. Same deal complete pass thru and great blood for a short sprint of under 50 yards.


I should have got pictures but it was darn cold!

 

[General RE LEE]

Yeah....I'm gonna be reloading, maybe not initially(sold it all yrs ago). But eventually.
Idk. I gotta pour over useless and pointless data for weeks on end, debating over 100fps of speed vs 1-2ftlbs of recoil, available bullets and components, 1 inch less drop at 300 yards(never shot an animal that far lol) and a bunch of other useless stuff that "form" would shake his head at, convince myself that I should get 4 different calibers.....then end up back at a 6.5 creedmor lol.

I went down the 6.5 PRC road a couple times and sold both of them within a few months. The 6.5 Creedmoor hits the sweet spot for whitetail deer in Tennessee. Light recoil with excellent velocity retention down range; widely available factory ammo and reloading components; and very good barrel life for year round shooting.

 

[Sled]

Yeah. I haven't totally decided what I'm gonna buy.

To me the obvious easy button is a 6.5 creedmor. But everyone has one, and I like to be a bit different. Maybe a 6.5prc.

A 25 creedmor is really tempting, but my budget is limited and I dont see any reasonably priced options yet.

Over a hundred pages and we have at least decided that the 6.5mm is now the big bore when it's time to "bring enough gun".

That's where I landed. And it's the Creedmoor and not the custom PRC that leaves the safe most days.