What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[Don Fischer]

Why wouldn’t you recommend the .243 for deer? I’ve seen it punch through both shoulders of deer and big pigs, and the only bullets I’ve ever recovered have been in the offside hide. I love my 6.5x55 but when it comes to deer it can’t do anything to them that a .243 can’t.

I have also killed three deer with the 243 with three shots. The two 100gr bullet's I used did shoot through but the 75gr bullet made a mess inside and didn't go through. I believe the real down side of the 243 is lack of good bullets! 25 cal has a better selection of them up to 120gr. and the 250-3000 Is not going to up the recoil much in fact neither does the 25-06 but the muzzle blast from the 25-06 does bother some people. I've shot both 25's. The 243 will definitely work with well placed shot's, no questions about it. But it keeps getting recommended for young and new shooter's to lesson recoil. I think that a bit more performance at near the same recoil is a plus! I was an instructor on a shooting range in the service while stationed in Europe and something I found surprised me. American shooter's are not all that great of shooters and some of these less than good shooter's take up hunting. They sight in their rifles at large targest ands figure if they hit the target enough, they are good to go! I have watched other's shooting that amazed me they ever hit a target. And ya know what? Most these people get direction from internet forums like these these days. On these forums the majority of poster's are people that do have shooting skills but at times I think they are more interested in getting good comments than teach people anything. Oh wow, he shoot's a magnum. Maybe I should to! Guys on these forums have a great deal to do with the lurker's problems!

One last thing about the 243 and 6.5X55. If you shoot a deer in the shoulder will the 243 still do the same job as the 6.5x55 with the same shot. I actually don't know. Only time I ever took a shoulder shot was many years ago and a 338 mag. Damn near broke the deer into two pieces! Same shot with the 243 and hit a bone and the 243 bullet might not make it through.

 

[Formidilosus]

No but I have with 50 and 55gr varmint bullet's from 22 CF's.

So again-

“I have never done a thing, have no experience with it- but let me tell you how it works”.


For the second time- can you tell me/us exactly what about the wound channel is lacking with a one of the heavy for caliber tipped match bullets listed above, for a bear?

Have also killed three deer with the 243 and I don't recommend it either. Because something is possible is no reason to recommend it! Most my deer have been shot with the 25-06, 6.5x55, 7mm Rem Mag and 308 Win. have also killed a few with the 7x57 and one with the 338 Win Mag! If I was to believe I wanted to shoot deer with 75/77/80 and 86gr bullet's I'd step up to the 243 and shoot 90gr and/or 100gr bullets.

Which ones are 300wm, 300 RUM, 243win, or 223?

 

[Don Fischer]

So again-

“I have never done a thing, have no experience with it- but let me tell you how it works”.


For the second time- can you tell me/us exactly what about the wound channel is lacking with a one of the heavy for caliber tipped match bullets listed above, for a bear?






Which ones are 300wm, 300 RUM, 243win, or 223?


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That is a lot of wasted meat! best shot I'd call the neck shot. Dead right there with lot less wasted meat. Miss understood your question which are which. You'll notice every shot but the neck shot waste's a lot of meat, the 243 and 223 if used in one of these is as bad as the rest problem being the 22 and 243 bullets are more fragile. But either the 223 or 243 on a neck shot will not damage that much meat! Take the same shot's with most other cartridges and place them that poorly and your still gonna have to much meat loss. Something I found with my 25-06 is that the 100gr bullet so many like for it on deer is destructive as can be. Step up to the 117gr bullet and destruction goes down considerably. 117gr bullet stronger constructed for the job. Deer shot with the 117gr bullet tend to walkoff a bit and lai down dead. With the 100gr bullet they normally get jerked off their feel, lighter constructed bullet.

 

[Formidilosus]

That is a lot of wasted meat! best shot I'd call the neck shot. Dead right there with lot less wasted meat.

So 223’s don’t do enough damage to kill well? Or they do too much damage?


Also, you didn’t answer the question- again. It’s ok to say “I don’t know”.

 

[Don Fischer]

I believe that worst came to past I could kill every shot with a 22 LR IF, I could get in the position I want. With a 223, no sweat but again depends on me getting the position I want. I can shoot the mild to non recoiling loads lots better than recoiling loads also. But no matter what I still realize up to some point larger calibers are better if for no other reason better bullet's allowing the shooter to be off a little and still make the shot. While I say this about the 22 RF and 22 CF's I would never recommend either to anyone for even deer or antelope size game. I don't ever hardly ever recommend the 243 yet I have killed three deer with it with three shots. Something like the 223 is more prone to fail on big game for no other reason than the user may have selected a poor choice in bullet's and placed it wrong for what it is.

Cameron is right. Years ago I had a family to feed and not a lot of income, I fed my family! If things were the same today, I'd feed my family! You don't like it, I don't care!

 

[Don Fischer]

That is a lot of wasted meat! best shot I'd call the neck shot. Dead right there with lot less wasted meat. Miss understood your question which are which. You'll notice every shot but the neck shot waste's a lot of meat, the 243 and 223 if used in one of these is as bad as the rest problem being the 22 and 243 bullets are more fragile. But either the 223 or 243 on a neck shot will not damage that much meat! Take the same shot's with most other cartridges and place them that poorly and your still gonna have to much meat loss. Something I found with my 25-06 is that the 100gr bullet so many like for it on deer is destructive as can be. Step up to the 117gr bullet and destruction goes down considerably. 117gr bullet stronger constructed for the job. Deer shot with the 117gr bullet tend to walkoff a bit and lai down dead. With the 100gr bullet they normally get jerked off their feel, lighter constructed bullet.

Scratch your jaw if you want. If your doing it about the difference between the 100gr and 117gr bullet, I been there and seen it first hand! I have always subsistence hunted so I find wasting meat simply to kill something off color! And I don't take photo's of animals I've killed either, never have and never will without some good reason. I think the animal deserves better than that!

 

[The Guide]

Oh boy, another one replying to their own posts! How long before we get a "Suck it" reply?

Jay

 

[Don Fischer]

Oh boy, another one replying to their own posts! How long before we get a "Suck it" reply?

Jay

Pretty quick I suppose!

 

[mxgsfmdpx]

Pretty quick I suppose!

Buddy. Put the bottle down and take a nap. It’s past your bedtime at this point.

 

[Don Fischer]

Buddy. Put the bottle down and take a nap. It’s past your bedtime at this point.

Yep!

 

[Ozarkansas]

you’re still gonna have to much meat loss. Something I found with my 25-06 is that the 100gr bullet so many like for it on deer is destructive as can be. Step up to the 117gr bullet and destruction goes down considerably. 117gr bullet stronger constructed for the job. Deer shot with the 117gr bullet tend to walkoff a bit and lai down dead. With the 100gr bullet they normally get jerked off their feel, lighter constructed bullet.

I don’t think you’d see a difference in performance between a 117 grain .25 bullet and a 90-100 grain .243 bullet. I get that you didn't like the performance of the 75 grain bullet but there are a ton of 90+ grain options that perform great on deer. I’m skeptical that there’s any tangible advantage of a 117 grain bullet from a 250 savage over something like a 95 grain partition or ballistic tip from a .243

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

Cameron is right. Years ago I had a family to feed and not a lot of income, I fed my family! If things were the same today, I'd feed my family! You don't like it, I don't care!

No one is trying to belittle you, your experience or feelings. But, there are those on this site that have contributed a very large database of factual material that proves much of what people believe to be gospel, based on what they’ve been told or seen in very small sample sizes, to be categorically incorrect.

You seem interested in this topic, so I’d urge you to keep an open mind and browse the threads that contain the knowledge and experience, including photos, which are in no way a disrespect to the animal, but the only way to actually show evidence, rather than heresay. No one wants to waste meat and all here want to be as effective and humane as possible. I don’t believe any other group of hunters take this as seriously as those here do.

 

[Don Fischer]

I don’t think you’d see a difference in performance between a 117 grain .25 bullet and a 90-100 grain .243 bullet. I get that you didn't like the performance of the 75 grain bullet but there are a ton of 90+ grain options that perform great on deer. I’m skeptical that there’s any tangible advantage of a 117 grain bullet from a 250 savage over something like a 95 grain partition or ballistic tip from a .243

You might be right but I have seen the difference between the 100gr bullet from the 243 and the 117gr bullet from the 25-06, have used both! I'll take the 25 cal bullet!

 

[Don Fischer]

No one is trying to belittle you, your experience or feelings. But, there are those on this site that have contributed a very large database of factual material that proves much of what people believe to be gospel, based on what they’ve been told or seen in very small sample sizes, to be categorically incorrect.

You seem interested in this topic, so I’d urge you to keep an open mind and browse the threads that contain the knowledge and experience, including photos, which are in no way a disrespect to the animal, but the only way to actually show evidence, rather than heresay. No one wants to waste meat and all here want to be as effective and humane as possible. I don’t believe any other group of hunters take this as seriously as those here do.

No one wants to waste meat? Go back up and look at the photos!

See you live in Wasilla. Lived there about a tear myself. Also lived in Rainbow about a year, about two miles back behind Scatter's bar.

 

[B_Reynolds_AK]

No one wants to waste meat? Go back up and look at the photos!

See you live in Wasilla. Lived there about a tear myself. Also lived in Rainbow about a year, about two miles back behind Scatter's bar.

Your comment about shot placement and the meat that is wasted is irrelevant to the point we are trying to get you to understand. What it does do is show that even those small cartridges can be optimized to create significant wound channels, larger than you care for. What is important is bullet construction. It’s just as easy to limit that wound channel as well, if that is what you are after. It proves the point that if one chooses, a .224 or .243 is absolutely sufficient to humanely kill most big game animals.

I love to hike above Rainbow. Beautiful part of the Chugach.

 

[JackButler]

A deer and a brown bear are not the same. When someone says a 223 is great for deer and elk, but maybe not a brown bear, and then you post a picture of a deer, it seems like you haven’t done the thing.

So again-

“I have never done a thing, have no experience with it- but let me tell you how it works”.


For the second time- can you tell me/us exactly what about the wound channel is lacking with a one of the heavy for caliber tipped match bullets listed above, for a bear?






Which ones are 300wm, 300 RUM, 243win, or 223?


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[JackButler]

Fair question. Probably they are inferring from experience that while heavy for caliber 22’s are good, they likely are not better than the standard fare 270’s etc..that they have learned the hard way are not up to the task.

Serious question - do you know whether they witnessed smaller caliber heavy for caliber bullets that have been discussed at length on RS?

 

[z987k]

A deer and a brown bear are not the same. When someone says a 223 is great for deer and elk, but maybe not a brown bear, and then you post a picture of a deer, it seems like you haven’t done the thing.

No he posted those asking which one was killed with a 223 vs 30 cal magnum. No one can ever tell.

If you go read the thread there's dead brown bears with necropsies from 223.

 

[wind gypsy]

Guys, if you’ve seen dons posts on other forums, you’d know to stop responding..

 

[yeti12]

A deer and a brown bear are not the same. When someone says a 223 is great for deer and elk, but maybe not a brown bear, and then you post a picture of a deer, it seems like you haven’t done the thing.

Go to the 223 thread, there is brown bears in there.