What caused the Rokslide shift to smallest caliber and cartridges?

[ElPollo]

Lots of ways to skin this cat if putting 30 through a hunting rifle in a single sitting isn’t of interest. I like a cold bore/cold shooter group over time for hunting rifles. 3x5 Index card with a target dot in the middle of it. Tack it to the target backer, it’s always the first (and only the first) shot on a range trip. Sometimes that’s the only shot from that rifle for the trip. All shots count.

Doesn’t really work if you can only do it a couple times a year, but if you shoot frequently it doesn’t take long to see what your rifle (and you) is doing on that shot that matters most.


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The guy I brought his up to said he was just as accurate with big, hard kicking calibers as small ones. The only way he can test that is to get a good estimate of his actual cone of fire with each gun. If he has a gun that has a hot bore issue, that’s a whole different problem. If spacing his 10-30 round group over hours makes him feel better about it or feel more accurate, great. The question is really what is the effect of recoil on his shooting.

 

[AkRyan]

Driving factor imo has been technology and bullets that are designed to perform at there gives velocity.
We shoot 7-08 at everything in Alaska with the 150g eldx, hornady specifically designed that bullet for sub 3kfps non magnum rifles (280, 280ai, 7-08, 7saum) it will out perform a standard 143 or 162g eldx all day long because it was designed to in the given calibers.

 

[dla]

What load are you shooting to generate that kind of recoil energy?

405gr@1900fps, 7lb carbine.

 

[Ranchhunter]

Years ago I worked for an outfitter in the Bob Marshal. When he started guiding in there he used a 25-35 , because that’s what he had. He said he killed a pile of elk with it. And quite a few bears, including grizzlies. This was in the days when the guide did the shooting quite often.
He said he shot a lot of them in the butt. Later a hunter gave him a sporterized 1903 Springfield.
If you look up a 25-35 the top load I could find on Hogdons website was a 117 gr bullet at 2500fps. Less than a 6creed.


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[specneeds]

Interesting theories. I agree there is no substitute for shooting to get better & more consistent shooting. Recoil tolerance is individual but can be learned & improved. I’ve had 110 lb woman shoot my light 375 H&H very well offhand at simulated charging Buffalo when training for a TV hunting show.

But if nasty recoil makes you flinch by all means add weight or a muzzle brake or drop to a smaller cartridge. If you’re in this category don’t think everyone else is as sensitive. I can’t run a marathon or dunk a basketball & never could - I can’t run a fast sprint anymore. But I’ve shot rifles since I was 4 & can manage recoil for under 6-8 shots of an unbraked 300 Weatherby with no loss of hunting accuracy. I have shot 30 rounds at a session but at 100-800 yards not a single group - that seems useless to me. I alternate a 17HMR or 22 during longer sessions to maintain good form. After initial sight in I shoot off my hunting pack & a couple other positions like prone or one knee so I’m prepared for real situations.

The under 45 aged hunters have always had available & affordable laser range finders so the flat shooting cartridges aren’t necessary for margin of error & new optics make long range easy by comparison to the old days so they don’t subject themselves to more recoil to extend range. We Elmer Fudd types didn’t have a choice if we wanted extended range we shot something that ended in magnum. In my opinion you can’t beat a 7mm RM or similar for longer range deer hunting but a 243 works as well in almost every situation.

For elk I have seen a difference in results from a 150 grain bullet around 3000 FPS & a 180 grain going almost 3200 FPS. With a 30 caliber TTSX no such thing as a bad angle to the vitals. Yes Real old timers killed them with 30-30’s & less but not usually during 1 week seasons in unfamiliar out of state areas. I’ve hunted them with a bow & don’t really enjoy the handicap when it deprives me of elk burger. Why wouldn’t I want to use a proven very effective combination if I’m capable of using that tool. If you’re not use something you can handle.

 

[mt100gr.]

HAPPY GROUNDHOG DAY!!

 

[fwafwow]

HAPPY GROUNDHOG DAY!!

Great post. I was thinking "here we go again"

 

[BlackHillsShooter]

I think there's a shift from, my 30 caliber rifle shoots 1 moa all day long, makes big holes, and I don't need to shoot it much to prove it (thank God). To, my rifle shoots 1 moa all day long, makes big holes, and I shoot it all day long. It isn't expensive either.

The advantage you gain as a hunter is you at this point. Placing your confidence in the tool isn't wrong but establishing greater confidence in yourself is a far more valuable asset. Not every hunter gets here.

I did it for decades. Take the rifle out a month before season start, shoot it, make any adjustments I needed, marvel at it's moa groups, and wait for opening day. Every single year.

Changed everything I ever believed. On top of it all, I have a white tail buck and cow elk in my freezers this year cementing the, small caliber equals deadly, in my head. The other day I shot 100 rounds from 400 to 800 yards at my club range. 400 has gotten easy in those conditions. The longer ranges were for learning, without pressure, how the wind at long range affects the bullet. A bullet that kills animals dead.

A few guys can shoot heavies enough to get here. I'm a big guy, still somewhat strong, but old. My neck ain't what it used to be. I'm having a great time and reaping the benefits from this new found knowledge and the ongoing training that I'm doing.

 

[Weldor]

Good read, I have shifted calibers more than a few times. I moved to the 6.5Creedmoor , than 6.5 PRC , always had a 308, 223 243. Bought a 6mm Creedmoor last fall. I'll say this it's a shooter. I'v settled on the 6.5 PRC and 6mm. Both meet my needs. Just trying to work a load out for the 6mm for less meat damage.

 

[robby denning]

HAPPY GROUNDHOG DAY!!

makes me wonder what cartridge would be best for these? debating between the 30-378 and the 338 Lapua because I'm not recoil sensitive and they have thick hides and are hard to stalk

 

[MT_Wyatt]

makes me wonder what cartridge would be best for these? debating between the 30-378 and the 338 Lapua because I'm not recoil sensitive and they have thick hides and are hard to stalk

Just don't use the bullets that "splash" and bounce off them and you should be "okay" sir. Meanwhile you're having an ICBM built in the form of 6UM, ha. #bulletproof.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

So you run ballistics with 3 different calibers/cartridge at 500 yards:

Option 1) flattest, 2nd best wind drift, most recoil
Option 2) mid drop, 3rd best wind drift but nearly equal to option 1, least recoil
Option 3) most drop, least wind drift, middle recoil
*each option is using a bullet that is effective for deer/elk/pronghorn* Each still has 2300+ fps at 500 yards.

Which would you chose IF you had to only pick 1?

 

[Pharmseller]

Has anyone mentioned that it’s more fun to shoot a smaller cartridge?

I’ll start. It’s more fun to shoot a smaller cartridge. I can see the impacts and I can shoot more while spending less.




P

 

[Pharmseller]

So you run ballistics with 3 different calibers/cartridge at 500 yards:

Option 1) flattest, 2nd best wind drift, most recoil
Option 2) mid drop, 3rd best wind drift but nearly equal to option 1, least recoil
Option 3) most drop, least wind drift, middle recoil
*each option is using a bullet that is effective for deer/elk/pronghorn* Each still has 2300+ fps at 500 yards.

Which would you chose IF you had to only pick 1?

The most accurate.




P

 

[mt100gr.]

makes me wonder what cartridge would be best for these? debating between the 30-378 and the 338 Lapua because I'm not recoil sensitive and they have thick hides and are hard to stalk

Just stay above 200gr bullets and watch out for the shoulder!

 

[BlackHillsShooter]

makes me wonder what cartridge would be best for these? debating between the 30-378 and the 338 Lapua because I'm not recoil sensitive and they have thick hides and are hard to stalk

Thick skull, don't aim there.

 

[Mule3006Elk]

The most accurate.




P

These are 3 cartridges I am seriously considering. Assuming all are accurate.

 

[Pharmseller]

These are 3 cartridges I am seriously considering. Assuming all are accurate.

Option 2. Rangefinder takes care of trajectory, practice addresses wind drift. I can’t range or practice away recoil.




P

 

[JGRaider]

makes me wonder what cartridge would be best for these? debating between the 30-378 and the 338 Lapua because I'm not recoil sensitive and they have thick hides and are hard to stalk

Whichever you choose, just make sure it's got a brake on it so it can be a miserable experience for everyone there.

 

[wind gypsy]

So you run ballistics with 3 different calibers/cartridge at 500 yards:

Option 1) flattest, 2nd best wind drift, most recoil
Option 2) mid drop, 3rd best wind drift but nearly equal to option 1, least recoil
Option 3) most drop, least wind drift, middle recoil
*each option is using a bullet that is effective for deer/elk/pronghorn* Each still has 2300+ fps at 500 yards.

Which would you chose IF you had to only pick 1?

Hard to say without the actual drop, drift, and recoil #s. [Edit to add: knowing which bullets are being compared is pretty important too if we're going to bench race #'s because a guy can make a cartridge look a lot better or worse depending on the bullet selected]

Going from 9 to 11# of recoil is different than going from 9 to 23#.

That also ignores other factors - quality brass available? Quality factory ammo available? good priced ammo? barrel life? Bore diameter with available bullet options that intrigue you? Does chamber design (if saami) contribute to better performance? How much am I going to have to trim brass?